Chris Reeve Knives - The Emperor's New Clothes?

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Did anyone mention this before? Tell me then what is Sebenza edge thickness.

Well, honestly, can you say that difference between Buck 110 Alascan Guide and Sebenza will be same as difference between regular car (Toyota) and Ferrafy?

Ferrary has way more powerful engine, have way higher top speed etc. Does CR provide same superior cutting performance?

Thanks, Vassili.

Yes, it does.

Also, this comparison isn't entirely accurate. Paying a mechanic to keep your Ferrari running makes it less desirable than a simple car or truck, such as a Civic or a Ranger. The Sebenza combines the best of both worlds: the performance of the Ferrari, and the upkeep of Civic.
 
Yes, it does.

Also, this comparison isn't entirely accurate. Paying a mechanic to keep your Ferrari running makes it less desirable than a simple car or truck, such as a Civic or a Ranger. The Sebenza combines the best of both worlds: the performance of the Ferrari, and the upkeep of Civic.

Being an automotive enthusiast I cannot agree. Firstly, modern Ferrari's are very well made, but they are definitely not for everyone. But a Sebenza is like the Subaru WRX STI of the knife world. Available, affordable, versatile, reliable, fun, but doesn't perform on the razor's edge like a Ferrari.
 
Yes, it does.

Also, this comparison isn't entirely accurate. Paying a mechanic to keep your Ferrari running makes it less desirable than a simple car or truck, such as a Civic or a Ranger. The Sebenza combines the best of both worlds: the performance of the Ferrari, and the upkeep of Civic.

Any prove or I have to buy it first? This is what I am talking about - no any description, nothing which can actually make me think that this ia real thing, just "The Sebenza combines the best of both worlds", which is not enought for me at all.

Eather you all can not verbally describe what it is so special or there is nothing special about it. Is it possible that among so many ture believers there is no one who can speak it up in words? This is what looks strange for me and make me think that this is only statement knife not cutter.

I can tell you what is special about Microtech SOCOM Elite or about Buck 110 or about Spyderco Military etc... But no one of you can tell anything about The Sebenza, anything but it is just The Perfection. I am not this kind of person who buy this kind of description.

Can you tell me at least what is edge thickness?

I also hear that it was very sharp. Well I can make any knife (except CPM S110V yet) whittling hair - what the point? Any manufacturer may install paper wheel and produce very sharp edge.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Why is Chris Reeve such an unimpeachable darling here? For the life of me I can't figure it out. As far as I can tell the only real earth-shattering innovation he has come up with is the framelock, which is basically just an improvement on the liner lock. Other than that, what am I missing?

The pivot bushing, nice idea in theory, but a nightmare if off by even millionths of an inch. The lack of it on the Umnum seems to be an admission that it was a less than stellar idea.

S30V steel, an increase in edge retention over something like 154CM or VG-10 but with a noticeable loss in toughness, that depending on the heat treatment varies from acceptable to chipping while slicing a banana. Not exactly a major step forward.

Above industry standard tolerances for production of folders? Once again in theory it sounds nice, but in actuality seems to create an open-to-the elements mechanical device that requires plenty of maintenance to perform smoothly. Just look at the countless threads on BF about people's problems with the Sebenza, such as smoothness of opening and over and under engaging of lock bars. The recommended solution in most cases - send it back to CRK. Sure it's probably very unlikely to fail in rough conditions but in normal day to day use it appears to require a good deal of maintenance to perform flawlessly.

Flawless design? Well ask those who have sliced their fingers running them up the back of a closed Sebenza because the blade edge isn't set back far enough. Or those who have been cut when their Sebenza opened in their pocket. The solution often recommended - get a pocket sheath.

Then there's the "issue" with Sebenzas just not being very efficient cutters. The solution often heard is to send it to Tom Krein for a regrind.

Whatever your take on the recent destruction tests, the advertised "superb toughness" of the one piece line seems pretty questionable. Seriously when was the last time these knives got a steel upgrade or a change in heat treatment protocol? A2 steel at 55-57 RC seems pretty behind the times for a $200 - $400 knife.

BF seems to serve as a relentless promoter of CRK knives while CRK barely participates in the forum. Compared to so many other makers/manufacturers that solicit opinions and answer questions from members here, CRK maintains a noticeably aloof presence.

Honestly, what am I missing?



I don't think this guy's trolling at all. A little sharp around the elbows maybe....

I like Sebenzas, have 3 and one Umfaan. Don't see anything "earth-shattering" about them. Have been carrying them for about 9 years, they have always worked well. No experience with the CRK fixed blades, no real interest there.

I've never met any of the CRK staff in person, but they have always treated me well, so no mystery there. Just good service - that's all.

Never had a problem with the pivot bushing concept. Definitely works better than any of the variable tension knives I've used. I like to polish the washers a bit to lighten the pivot action.

The S30V works very well in terms of keenness and retention. I'm not doing anything with the knives where toughness has become an issue. My BG Sebenza is consistent in function with my BG/Bos Striders, so no issue there either way.

I've never had any problems with Sebenzas being finicky due to high tolerances, although I'm not wallowing around in the mud and sand with them. Would use a fixed blade for that - probably a Busse.

The lock bars are easy enough to adjust if one is not satisfied with the engagement. They are hand fit, so a range of stuff goes out of the shop. All of mine arrived within what I consider to be reasonable tolerance. Only thing I've ever sent a knife back to CRK for was to have the slabs blasted.

I favor the Regular design, so no issues with cutting myself through the vent, although can see where that might be an issue with the Classic - especially for fondlers. Never had any problems with detents either, although I do carry the knives clipped in my right front pocket, but still, never had any unexpected release, and that is with some pretty substantial body movement.

I thin out the secondary edges on most all of my knives, Sebenzas included. They cut fine for me. I have a couple of non-CRK Krein regrinds, and yes, he would definitely thin a Sebenza out. Lol. Think I'd probably want to be there with him if getting a Sebenza reground. What Tom would send you back in the absence of special instructions would undoubtedly cut like mad, although it might be a little delicate for my taste, in S30V.

Have already made myself clear in the 'hockey rink'. Don't use the CRK straight knives, no plans to, definitely think the vid's are informative, definitely think the knives failed prematurely, definitely think they need to be much tougher to suit their design, definitely do not care who does or does not agree with me.

On the cost issue (and I'm still just talking about Sebenzas here) $400 is a drop in the damn bucket. People make it sound like CRK is some sort of poodey-poo bling club. Considering what the middle class spends on cars, TV's, sneakers, movies, vacations to Idiotland... I don't see a $400 pocket knife as an issue at all. Certainly not a greater indulgence than a $30K car, and the knife is basically a lifetime purchase. Of course I am not talking about buying 100 of them.

On the general design issue, the Sebenza is a stellar design. It belongs in MoMA. Relative to say, a $150 Benchmade, how much of the cost translates directly into performance? I'd say probably $300 or so... the Sebenza is about twice as good. The other $100 is patronage. It's me supporting the sort of industrial arts I want to see developed in this country. It's me choosing to send my money to a small business that's taken the risk and the time to develop a truly superior product - both tangibly and in the abstract. It's one person who designs stuff professionally telling another person who designs stuff professionally, "Hey dude - good bloody job!"

And on the status issue, I deal with very, very few people who have the slightest idea about knives in my day to day life. Most of them really just could not care less about knives - as tools, weapons, bling or in any other context. If I were trying to draw attention to myself with paraphernalia (and I'm not) I'd definitely choose an area other than knives.
 
Being an automotive enthusiast I cannot agree. Firstly, modern Ferrari's are very well made, but they are definitely not for everyone. But a Sebenza is like the Subaru WRX STI of the knife world. Available, affordable, versatile, reliable, fun, but doesn't perform on the razor's edge like a Ferrari.

You need to do a little more work on your STi... and maybe get a little more seat time. :)
 
Any prove or I have to buy it first? This is what I am talking about - no any description, nothing which can actually make me think that this ia real thing, just "The Sebenza combines the best of both worlds", which is not enought for me at all.

Eather you all can not verbally describe what it is so special or there is nothing special about it. Is it possible that among so many ture believers there is no one who can speak it up in words? This is what looks strange for me and make me think that this is only statement knife not cutter.

I can tell you what is special about Microtech SOCOM Elite or about Buck 110 or about Spyderco Military etc... But no one of you can tell anything about The Sebenza, anything but it is just The Perfection. I am not this kind of person who buy this kind of description.

Can you tell me at least what is edge thickness?

I also hear that it was very sharp. Well I can make any knife (except CPM S110V yet) whittling hair - what the point? Any manufacturer may install paper wheel and produce very sharp edge.

Thanks, Vassili.

No offence to you Vassili, It would appear you are somewhat regarded in forum circles, and me, being a relative new comer, have not yet experienced your golden influence,

However - if you cannot see the apparent value in a Sebenza, then i'm afraid, no one will be able to convince you.

Much of its value stems from the years of use these knives are proven to give their owners, yes they are blades, therefore they get sharp, and get blunt, and get sharp again, but the simplicity of their design, ease of maintenance, form & function, material make up all make their RRP either justifiable, or not.

You seem hell bent on being able to whittle hair, thats great Vassili, but it's not the be all and end all. I dont think the Sebenza was designed as a hair whittling machine, nor is it's blade best served as a razor, but it is a fantastic utility, in my opinion, and in the esteemed opinion of many of CRK's customers.

Your constant jibing for this justification, and for the request from people here for accurate selling points comes across as rather argumentative and somewhat over emotional.

It would appear you have much of a need to want to dislike the brand, the manufacturer and their products, when your position would be best served as a less opinionated critic.
 
You need to do a little more work on your STi... and maybe get a little more seat time. :)

My opinion is based on what I know about the car in stock form. I don't have one. I have a Miata that is soon to get a turbo. I wouldn't spend $35-$40k on a Subaru. That kind of money is Lotus Elise territory (preowned).
 
I guess I'll add my opinion in here, for what it's worth.. I mean, we all have these opinions, and to appease every single knife nut on this board would be impossible.

My CRK experience is limited to the Classic Sebenza I purchased three and a half years ago.

To sum it up, the Sebenza is a rock solid knife of exceptionally high build quality. If it were but that, the price would not justify it. Where the Sebenza, and CRK as a whole, shines, is in the details. These are the things that get passed by on such knives as Benchmades, Spydercos, Kershaws, and the like. For example:

-The spine of the blade is rounded. This, although not that novel, is remarkably rarely done on any other production folder. It's an added bit of comfort and class, but is also an extra manufacturing step that most companies pass by because it would raise production prices.
-The pocket clip is not just screwed to the side of the handle, but instead a channel is actually milled into the titanium so that only one screw is needed, and it yet does not wiggle around.
-The edges of the handles are beveled, not once, but twice. Two distinct bevels are created in the 90 degree transition between the flat of the handle and the spine of the handle to create a more comfortable grip. Most folders are simply rounded, but to actually take the time to bevel it separately is novel.
-The blade grinds are symmetrical. Take a close look at 95-99% of any production folders out there and this will not be the case.
-The finish is well thought out and attractive. Mine's a wood inlay model, which has polished flats on the handles with bead blasted spines and lockbar. The blade has a satin finished grind with a stonewashed flat above the grind. These details are never done on production knives, with the exception of some higher end folders (ie SOG Fatcat)

These items are what I could come up off the top of my head. I could go on and probably raise half a dozen more points without working too hard, but I think you get the picture.

To answer your question, Nozh, I would prefer the steel behind the edge thinner than what it is, but for a working knife, which the Sebenza is, I would say it is reasonable. I also did not find the Sebenza that sharp out of the box. It's a convex edge that they leave on it, which is nice and durable, but fairly thick. I've rebeveled mine to make it work better for me.

These are my observations of CRK. It's the little details that makes the Sebenza what it is. Sure, there are knives out there that will perform just as well or better for many tasks, but you will not find another production folder out there for the price of the Sebenza that is as detail oriented.

Will I buy another Sebenza? I can almost guarantee I won't.

Will I ever sell mine? No.

YMMV.

Travis
 
In other words, the All Knowing and Unidentifiable Hockey Mask has declared Chris Reeve a heretic, and all of Hockey Mask's devoted followers must now crap all over the brand regardless of the reality of the company's reputation, customer service, and product quality.

Nobody mentioned the "Ferrary," whatever the hell that's supposed to be.

So you are thinking that Noss and Nozh are the same person?

We get it, you hate knifetests.com, probably because it gets more traffic and better reviews than your website.

Give it up dude. No one cares what you think.
 
On the general design issue, the Sebenza is a stellar design. It belongs in MoMA. Relative to say, a $150 Benchmade, how much of the cost translates directly into performance? I'd say probably $300 or so... the Sebenza is about twice as good. The other $100 is patronage.

ok, you said it... :D
care to elaborate on how a sebenza offers twice the performance of a benchmade?

(and before anybody goes ballistic whilst trying to devine the motivation behind by question, let me go on the record as being someone who is "in the market" for a sebbie...)
 
My opinion is based on what I know about the car in stock form. I don't have one. I have a Miata that is soon to get a turbo. I wouldn't spend $35-$40k on a Subaru. That kind of money is Lotus Elise territory (preowned).


My point is basically that it doesn't take long before you get to the point where there is a lot more to be gained from just 'doing it yourself'.

The $30K STi comes alive with some basic mod's and some solid seat time. You have to take the initiative and do a little legwork. It can be a very rewarding car.

Of course the same thing is true for the Miata and Elise, but they have very different characters. :)

What I got out of your initial post was that the STi is like the Sebenza, in that it provides a solid, cost-effective platform. And I agree. It doesn't take another 100 grand to get the STi to sing, though. Only about another 10.

Kind of the same thing with the Sebenza.
 
ok, you said it... :D
care to elaborate on how a sebenza offers twice the performance of a benchmade?

(and before anybody goes ballistic whilst trying to devine the motivation behind by question, let me go on the record as being someone who is "in the market" for a sebbie...)

You're right... I did said it. Flip side is that it's just my personal opinion. :)

I have 2 Benchmades and 4 CRK's. Honestly, the thing that just kills me about the CRK's is the lockup. There is _no_ play. I make pivot adjustments by polishing the washers, so it's easy to fine-tune the action. Silky smooth with rock-solid lockup - like no other knife I have ever handled.

My CRK's also cut better than my Benchmades. So there you have it: They are _folding_ _knives_. The CRK's fold better and they cut better, right out of the box. I would say, to the tune of 200%.

I am definitely not arguing that in general terms for all people. But for me, yes. About 200%.

Moving into the semi-tangible realm, there's the Sebenza as kit-of-parts. It's made to be disassembled and noodled with. It is just a starting point. You can flip the screws, thin the blade, speed the action, adjust the lock engagement... all of these are just light mod's.

Moving further into modding, you can mill the scales, or just let them patina into a unique surface.

Beyond that (in the final $100) is the cool factor of the tolerances. The thing is just so well thought out. Of course one could argue that the Benchmade products have greater production constraints, and that there is an inherent design element in that - which there is. I like the limited production concept more, though. It balances the logistical challenges of production with the personal touches of custom fitment.

Again, really just my $.02. YMMV. :)
 
No offence to you Vassili, It would appear you are somewhat regarded in forum circles, and me, being a relative new comer, have not yet experienced your golden influence,

However - if you cannot see the apparent value in a Sebenza, then i'm afraid, no one will be able to convince you.

Much of its value stems from the years of use these knives are proven to give their owners, yes they are blades, therefore they get sharp, and get blunt, and get sharp again, but the simplicity of their design, ease of maintenance, form & function, material make up all make their RRP either justifiable, or not.

You seem hell bent on being able to whittle hair, thats great Vassili, but it's not the be all and end all. I dont think the Sebenza was designed as a hair whittling machine, nor is it's blade best served as a razor, but it is a fantastic utility, in my opinion, and in the esteemed opinion of many of CRK's customers.

Your constant jibing for this justification, and for the request from people here for accurate selling points comes across as rather argumentative and somewhat over emotional.

It would appear you have much of a need to want to dislike the brand, the manufacturer and their products, when your position would be best served as a less opinionated critic.

This is very usual, to just repeat marketing statements which I am not buying, as well it is usual to transfer discussion from topic to opponents. I am not interesting in discussing myself with you. I am not CR hater - keep this kind of mentality away. My \question is simple - do you actually know what are you talking about. What is so special about Sebenza which differ it from other knives except it being Legendary?

Can you answer this question without going to discuss myself?

Thanks, Vassili.
 
You're right... I did said it. Flip side is that it's just my personal opinion. :)

opinions are appreciated :)

i still can't imagine my Benchmades performing much better in either cutting or in folding, let alone imagine them preforming 100% better...but i still want a Sebenza...for the tolerances you mention, and for its elegant lines...it's a beautiful knife.

and that's why i want one, for it's refinement.

thanks for the reply. :thumbup:
 
I guess I'll add my opinion in here, for what it's worth.. I mean, we all have these opinions, and to appease every single knife nut on this board would be impossible.

My CRK experience is limited to the Classic Sebenza I purchased three and a half years ago.

To sum it up, the Sebenza is a rock solid knife of exceptionally high build quality. If it were but that, the price would not justify it. Where the Sebenza, and CRK as a whole, shines, is in the details. These are the things that get passed by on such knives as Benchmades, Spydercos, Kershaws, and the like. For example:

-The spine of the blade is rounded. This, although not that novel, is remarkably rarely done on any other production folder. It's an added bit of comfort and class, but is also an extra manufacturing step that most companies pass by because it would raise production prices.
-The pocket clip is not just screwed to the side of the handle, but instead a channel is actually milled into the titanium so that only one screw is needed, and it yet does not wiggle around.
-The edges of the handles are beveled, not once, but twice. Two distinct bevels are created in the 90 degree transition between the flat of the handle and the spine of the handle to create a more comfortable grip. Most folders are simply rounded, but to actually take the time to bevel it separately is novel.
-The blade grinds are symmetrical. Take a close look at 95-99% of any production folders out there and this will not be the case.
-The finish is well thought out and attractive. Mine's a wood inlay model, which has polished flats on the handles with bead blasted spines and lockbar. The blade has a satin finished grind with a stonewashed flat above the grind. These details are never done on production knives, with the exception of some higher end folders (ie SOG Fatcat)

These items are what I could come up off the top of my head. I could go on and probably raise half a dozen more points without working too hard, but I think you get the picture.

To answer your question, Nozh, I would prefer the steel behind the edge thinner than what it is, but for a working knife, which the Sebenza is, I would say it is reasonable. I also did not find the Sebenza that sharp out of the box. It's a convex edge that they leave on it, which is nice and durable, but fairly thick. I've rebeveled mine to make it work better for me.

These are my observations of CRK. It's the little details that makes the Sebenza what it is. Sure, there are knives out there that will perform just as well or better for many tasks, but you will not find another production folder out there for the price of the Sebenza that is as detail oriented.

Will I buy another Sebenza? I can almost guarantee I won't.

Will I ever sell mine? No.

YMMV.

Travis

Thank you Travis, this is what I was looking for. I really appretiate if you continue your list of what does differ Sebenza from other knife.

My point is that it is annoing to hear back - "You are just cheap CR hater" every time you ask what is so special about Sebenza.

Thanks to take your time and explain it to me. It does not mean that I will rush to buy it, but at least I can understand better what it is.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
With my micrometer set at 0.025 inches, my Sebenza edge will go completely through the gap and out the other side by about an eighth of an inch. It is amazingly thin and an incredible cutter, especially with a convex edge.

None of my other three favorite knives -- Rukus, Military and Manix -- will pass their edge through the gap, and in fact, they barely get started.
 
The simple fact (to me anyways) is CRK makes a darn good knife. There are a lot of them out there that have survived tons of day to day use. I think it is safe to say that Benchmade, Spyderco, Busse and so on make some darn good knives...give me a big enough hammer and I can destroy any one of them in minutes. That does not take away from the fact that they are all great knives.

As for the Sebenza, I had one a few years ago and foolishly traded it off. It was a great cutter...was it worth the 325 dollars (price at the time)? To me it was, whether it was to somebody else does not matter one bit.

I currently have one of their one piece fb and it does wonderfully to me. It has chopped and been batoned (with wood) with no problems at all.
 
So you are thinking that Noss and Nozh are the same person?

We get it, you hate knifetests.com, probably because it gets more traffic and better reviews than your website.

Give it up dude. No one cares what you think.

Yes, that must be it.

Welcome to my ignore list, little boy.
 
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