Chris Reeve Knives - The Emperor's New Clothes?

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Interesting thread.

I'd appreciate hearing your opinions about Benchmade's mini-Skirmish 635 as an alternative to a Sebenza.

Thank you.
 
I appreciate the build quality of the Sebenza, but it generally sits in a drawer while I carry Axis Lock Benchmades.

Sebs are massively over-hyped in my opinion.
 
I appreciate good engineering and I don't mind paying a little more for it. The Sebenza is well designed, nicely engineered and the construction is excellent.

Basically, it's something I can hold in my hand and say; "Damn, that's a nice tool". I adopt the same philosophy for other tools that I own. I buy the best I can afford. Not the prettiest, not the one with the most "status", and not one just because everyone else has it. I buy things that are, in my opinion, well designed and well made from quality materials.

After that I look at the before and after sales service of the company making/selling it then I look at price.

Other people use different criteria, good for them.

Having said all that, my week day "office" EDC is usually a BM mini grip. It's also well made and well designed and performs the tasks I have for it very well. It's a good knife, no doubt about it, but the Seb still impresses me more for its simplicity and excellence of design. Its the knife I carry when I'm not at work. I once showed it to a friend of mine who lives in Sydney. He knows absolutely nothing about knives, zero. He designs engineering software for mining companies, a very bright boy indeed. His comment when he saw the Seb; " That's really well made, nice design". The design quality of the knife is apparent to anyone who cares to look at.

Are there things that could be improved? Yes. Nothing is perfect.

The real point is, why should anyone care what others think is best for them. If you think a Frost Cutlery covert deanimator with blood grooves for $15 is the best knife for your purposes, fine, good luck to you, why should I care.
 
I do feel bad that this thread started out being a bit of a rant :o Honestly I have tremendous respect for Chris Reeve. I think he is an incredible designer/artist. But he's producing objects and marketing them as user items and that is where I feel there is cognitive dissonance. I somehow feel he would be better suited to designing BMWs while letting the engineers deal with the performance aspects of the overall vehicle. In my OP I never once questioned the price of a Sebenza, I only mentioned price regarding the one piece line, and I still don't feel like it's asking too much for a $350 Project I to be made out of something like 3V. I'm sorry if I stepped on some toes but my OP was just a summary of thoughts that have been lurking in the back of my mind for some time now.
 
theonew said:
I do feel bad that this thread started out being a bit of a rant :o Honestly I have tremendous respect for Chris Reeve. I think he is an incredible designer/artist. But he's producing objects and marketing them as user items and that is where I feel there is cognitive dissonance. I somehow feel he would be better suited to designing BMWs while letting the engineers deal with the performance aspects of the overall vehicle. In my OP I never once questioned the price of a Sebenza, I only mentioned price regarding the one piece line, and I still don't feel like it's asking too much for a $350 Project I to be made out of something like 3V. I'm sorry if I stepped on some toes but my OP was just a summary of thoughts that have been lurking in the back of my mind for some time now.
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You did not mention 3V in your OP, why bring it up now?
 
whoa buddy! some very passionate people here!
ive never owned a sebbi but handled several and they felt and looked stellar. i would have to carry one for a week or two to really determine whether your accusations hold water....
charging $400 for a knife with serious issues sounds wierd. i have met the lady that engraves their knives and spent time in their shop and they dont strike me as the type of people to overcharge by 200 or 300%
just $.02
 
The Sebenza is not going to make everybody happy, but then again I doubt there is a knife out there that will!!

I own several Spyderco's, Striders and Sebenza's all are very good knives with their own different pro's and con's.

After handling them all I decided that for me the Sebenza had the best compromise of what I am looking for in a folder to EDC. Needless to say it gets carried a lot.

So i guess I belong to the camp that says they are worth it.

Cheers :thumbup:
 
i've owned alot of knives and crk is the highest quality folder I've ever had. Not the best value (price/quality) that would be benchmade. But still highest quality folder in the world if price is not an issue . and by the way spyderco blows I've had about 7 and they all suck blade play, lock faliure. terrible and won't buy another
 
so is the basic conclusion that a CRK is like a Ferrari; wonderful to drive, but the 'haters' will say it's a $200k male enhancement product? :p
 
Still, could someone explain in which area a big Sebenza offers higher quality than a roughly half-price ZT 300 series knife? I don't see or feel a quality difference. Both offer awesome and tank-like build quality. I appreciate both knives, but I always thought that sebenzas are partly bought because of the hype, I can't see a rational explanation for paying the extra cash.
 
Dagon said:
Still, could someone explain in which area a big Sebenza offers higher quality than a roughly half-price ZT 300 series knife? I don't see or feel a quality difference. Both offer awesome and tank-like build quality. I appreciate both knives, but I always thought that sebenzas are partly bought because of the hype, I can't see a rational explanation for paying the extra cash.
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In the end it simply comes down to personal opinion. I don't think anyone has to rationalise why they prefer one knife over another.

Just be thankful that we have so many great choices!! :thumbup: :)
 
Dagon said:
Still, could someone explain in which area a big Sebenza offers higher quality than a roughly half-price ZT 300 series knife? I don't see or feel a quality difference. Both offer awesome and tank-like build quality. I appreciate both knives, but I always thought that sebenzas are partly bought because of the hype, I can't see a rational explanation for paying the extra cash.
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I think it comes from the quality of the machine work and the difficulties involved in maintaining a dead square alignment so the pivot bushing and the other parts work as intended. This requires a craftsman's time and time to maintain the machine tools. Not to say the ZT is a bad knife, I think it is a very good knife that will and has made many folk happy. Myself, I'm not a fan of the blade shape or the frankenstienish pivot nut, somewhat inelegant in my opinion. Perhaps there is difference in acceptable tolerances for the design of each. The ZT may approach the same tolerances for machine work in the Sebenza but I doubt they surpass it. There are two pieces of titanium to be milled in a Seb, and one in a ZT. The Sebs are surface finished to flat where the ZT has handle relief cut in, which design takes more time and uses up more cutting tools I couldn't guess.

Yesterday I spent 2 or 3 hours setting a drill press up to bore "almost" dead square and making five holes in knife scales fit perfect to the holes in the blade steel. I don't know for sure, but I suspect you are paying for a craftsmans time and the tools that he uses. I'd like to get a ZT to compare with, or I could do the old, "handled one in a store" trick.

Gotta admit, I bought my first because of the endless number of opinions expressed about them and i finally wanted to see what the fuss was about. If people would like to call that hype, so be it. But as AG has posted, threads like this will likely sell another Seb or three.
 
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I do not think CR may be compared to Ferrary - it's performance edge holding etc will be same as for any knife with same steel. Ferrary will go way faster then Toyota, but CR will not outcut let say Buck 110 Alaskan Guide with CPM S30V heat treated by Paul Boss.

CR does not even provide special craftsmanship like for example W&H does. So in general difference is only price and with all listed questions - it is far from being Ferrary of knife world. It may be like Toyota vs Lexus.

What does look strange for me is that nobody really can clearly describe what is actually better. For ecample I can say why Microtech is more expensive - different more thought through mechanics like Bar-lock and really thin edge (which means more carefull HT). W&H has really good art work and superior steel - ZDP 189. Clear to understand what it is and why. But what CR message is?

I never hear same for CR - it is always - buy it for yourself if you can afford it and then you will see all the beauty etc, etc, etc. To me it indicates that for most it is only high price what is really important. So like message - "I am rich". I heard this actually many time - "You do hate CR because you can not afford it!" It seems to me that many CR "lovers" focused on this aspect most.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
I do not think CR may be compared to Ferrary - it's performance edge holding etc will be same as for any knife with same steel. Ferrary will go way faster then Toyota, but CR will not outcut let say Buck 110 Alaskan Guide with CPM S30V heat treated by Paul Boss.

Thanks, Vassili.
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Vassili, my friend,

Have yoiu ever compared the edge geometry of the Buck 110 and the CR folder? They will not cut the same even though the steel is the same.

The CR will be thicker at the edge than the WH but much thinner than the Buck.
 
nozh2002 said:
I do not think CR may be compared to Ferrary - it's performance edge holding etc will be same as for any knife with same steel. Ferrary will go way faster then Toyota, but CR will not outcut let say Buck 110 Alaskan Guide with CPM S30V heat treated by Paul Boss.

CR does not even provide special craftsmanship like for example W&H does. So in general difference is only price and with all listed questions - it is far from being Ferrary of knife world. It may be like Toyota vs Lexus.

What does look strange for me is that nobody really can clearly describe what is actually better. For ecample I can say why Microtech is more expensive - different more thought through mechanics like Bar-lock and really thin edge (which means more carefull HT). W&H has really good art work and superior steel - ZDP 189. Clear to understand what it is and why. But what CR message is?

I never hear same for CR - it is always - buy it for yourself if you can afford it and then you will see all the beauty etc, etc, etc. To me it indicates that for most it is only high price what is really important. So like message - "I am rich". I heard this actually many time - "You do hate CR because you can not afford it!" It seems to me that many CR "lovers" focused on this aspect most.

Thanks, Vassili.
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In other words, the All Knowing and Unidentifiable Hockey Mask has declared Chris Reeve a heretic, and all of Hockey Mask's devoted followers must now crap all over the brand regardless of the reality of the company's reputation, customer service, and product quality.

Nobody mentioned the "Ferrary," whatever the hell that's supposed to be.
 
A. G. Russell said:
Vassili, my friend,

Have yoiu ever compared the edge geometry of the Buck 110 and the CR folder? They will not cut the same even though the steel is the same.

The CR will be thicker at the edge than the WH but much thinner than the Buck.
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Did anyone mention this before? Tell me then what is Sebenza edge thickness.

Well, honestly, can you say that difference between Buck 110 Alascan Guide and Sebenza will be same as difference between regular car (Toyota) and Ferrafy?

Ferrary has way more powerful engine, have way higher top speed etc. Does CR provide same superior cutting performance?

Thanks, Vassili.
 
When I got back into knife collecting about 6 years ago someone introduced me to a Sebenza. I quickly fell into an obsession, saved up and bought one. To this day I've never been as excited to own a knife as I was my first Sebenza. But I had several since and noticed things I don't like. My Murray Carter neck knife will destroy any Sebenza in pure cutting ability, it's like a Lightsaber, and that's what I appreciate these days. I don't know if I'll spend the money for an Umnumzaan.

I'm over the CRK buzz, but I still love and respect the company a lot. I also had a Shadow I and my god was that a knife! Not just "that's not a knife, this is a knife" huge but it was sharp! I think the one-piece knives are still CRK's greatest accomplishment.
 
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