Chris Reeve's no-flick policy

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Planterz said:
I have all the respect in the world for Chris Reeve, his company, and what they've done to benefit the knife industry. But frankly I think they need to get with the times and adopt the improvements other makers/manufacturers have made to Reeve's framelock in the past 25 or so years. Namely, the Hinderer lock stabilizer, and the adjustable. replaceable lockbar insert. "Abuse" or not, it seems silly to me that a $400 knife can prematurely wear out from what other companies would consider "normal" use.
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CRK isn't talking about normal use as in the quotes and video about abnormal abuse.

Sitting around flicking a knife open hundreds or thousands of times isn't normal use and it will wear on the parts of the lock.

Now if a person actually cut something with that knife for even 90% of those openings think about how many times it would have needed sharpening and the time period.

In the video at the end it showed a lock that had been opened harshly 8000 times, it showed very little wear, then it showed the typical condition of a lock that THEY get back..... The difference is easy to see...
 
Ankerson said:
CRK isn't talking about normal use as in the quotes and video about abnormal abuse.

Sitting around flicking a knife open hundreds or thousands of times isn't normal use and it will wear on the parts of the lock.

Now if a person actually cut something with that knife for even 90% of those openings think about how many times it would have needed sharpening and the time period.

In the video at the end it showed a lock that had been opened harshly 8000 times, it showed very little wear, then it showed the typical condition of a lock that THEY get back..... The difference is easy to see...
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That raised more questions than it answered. For one, what causes the condition of the knives they get back in; it was supposed to be verified in a follow-up post. For another and more on topic, if 8000 harsh openings does next to nothing to the knife, why is flicking not allowed in the first place?
 
kreole said:
That raised more questions than it answered. For one, what causes the condition of the knives they get back in; it was supposed to be verified in a follow-up post. For another and more on topic, if 8000 harsh openings does next to nothing to the knife, why is flicking not allowed in the first place?
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8000 openings is about 22 a day for a year.... That's 365 days and using that knife everyday..

About 11 a day for 2 years.....

About 7 a day for 3 years....

About 5 a day for 4 years....

About 4 a day for 5 years.....

About 3.6 a day for 6 years...

About 3 a day for 7 years....

About 2.7 a day for 8 years....

About 2.5 a day for 9 years...

About 2 a day for 10 years...





Now looking at these numbers think about how much abuse those locks must be seeing..... In a short period of time....
 
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kreole said:
That raised more questions than it answered. For one, what causes the condition of the knives they get back in; it was supposed to be verified in a follow-up post. For another and more on topic, if 8000 harsh openings does next to nothing to the knife, why is flicking not allowed in the first place?
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Ankerson isn't officially stating anything about CRK or their warranty. It looks like he simply shared his common-sense interpretation of the video.

If you want an official answer, I think you should look to CRK.
Seems like they have said "flicking is not encouraged".
It makes perfect sense to me why they don't encourage it.

P.S. - Concerning "what causes the condition of the knives they get back in", to put it simply... NeptuneKnives and anyone like him. I'm sure CRK has to deal with this type of BS more than we know.
 
Nullity said:
Ankerson isn't officially stating anything about CRK or their warranty. It looks like he simply shared his common-sense interpretation of the video.

If you want an official answer, I think you should look to CRK.
Seems like they have said "flicking is not encouraged".
It makes perfect sense to me why they don't encourage it.
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Exactly...

I couldn't believe it..... :eek:

I could guess that wrist flicking along with spine whacking could possibly be some of it.

But that is just a guess....
 
humblerodent said:
The CRK stance on flicking gets a lot of attention, with some people cracking jokes that the big bad expensive knives can't handle a couple of flicks. Most of my collection is now CRK and I can tell you that they are by far the most robust knives that I have owned. But any knife will develop issues when that kind of force is applied to the parts of the knife over and over again. Chris isn't saying the knives will fall apart if you flick it open once. He's saying take care of your knives and they will take care of you. If you do abuse your knives in any way, be prepared to live with any issues that arise; the maker is not responsible for those.
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I agree.....I have owned alot of CRK, and I really have no need to flick a knife open unless it is a flipper and that is the only way to open the knife. Sometimes it just draws to much unwanted attention. I also see why Mr. Reeves has this rule; Flicking the knife over and over puts alot of forced pressure on the stop pin and after time will put wear on the pin, which will cause slack in the lock up! But you bought it, and its yours to do with what ever you want....I say just open it and use it in good health and Enjoy a great knife! Just my .02 cents!
 
If you want something to play with, buy a toy. If you have the money to throw away, buy a sebenza and play with it like its a toy. But asking why your knife can't handle tasks not meant for a knife, like being played with doesn't make much sense. I had a used large crk that must have been heavily abused by the previous owner. My solution was to give it away and buy a brand new one
 
The video made no sense to me. The lock bar looked fine after having been opened 8000 "harshly". What does harshly mean? Normal opening (not flicking) certainly is not harsh, so that particular knife had endured something more harsh than regular opening. The only thing up the "harsh" foodchain from regular opening is light flicking.

Even when I flick, its not harsh, and I certainly don't do it with my whole arm (like throwing a frisbee) as was shown in the video. I also don't believe that the "abused lock" that was shown resulted from flicking. That thing looked like it had been batoned by Nutnfancy. The video was too vague to be helpful.

I think this is much discussion about nothing, really. I know there has been a customer or two with whom CRK has disagreed over the purported level of abuse the knife endured to sustain damage, and I'm interested to dissect those accounts. But with all of the CRK knives out there getting used and flicked and pried and abused on a daily basis, it does not seem as if there is an epidemic of flattened lock bars.

But I do wish that CRK would catch up with Spyderco and use a steel insert to make this a moot issue. Perhaps the ceramic ball, which appears to be headed toward universal usage at CRK, will be the functional equivalent of a steel insert.
 
Awright!!! Trainmaster!! ^ Good to see you here.
Why? Why does one have to flick a knife open?
Getting annoyed with peeps flicking my knives open when I show them, I ask them right off, please do not flick this knife.
 
Wrist flicking, which is what CRK doesn't warrant, always struck me like letting the slide go on an empty 1911 or deliberately making the engine in your vehicle knock... :rolleyes:
 
I just want to amend something I said earlier. While I thought I was a CRK flicker, the more I paid attention to it, the more I decided that I don't really flick CRK folders. Thats because they generally - and for me - are just not that easily flicked. That is to say, they don't have a giant Spydie hole and aren't adjusted borderline loose. So now that I have been paying attention to how I open a Sebenza or Umnumzaan, I see that I'm not really flicking.
 
I thought damage to the stop pin was the main complaint in regard to flicking. If they use the lockbar as the determining factor, I wonder if that means the Umnumzaan is fine since the ceramic lock interface should theoretically wear a groove in the blade before it sees any wear.
Opening a knife slowly seems to engage the lock further than flicking when I do it (I do not use heavy inertial openings though), and what's more, I've had several locks get stuck in the open position after doing some hard cutting (I literally had to jam something in the handle to pry the lock-bar out). As far as lockbar wear is concerned it seems to me that flicking should be the least of your concerns.
 
IMO.. Knife owners are a minority. I feel flicking open a knife draws negative attention, and leads voters to ban one hand opening knives. Don't flick, or even one and open your knife unless doing so is necessary.
 
This is all just BS warranty dodging.

Flicking is the fast way to get your knife out and ready one-handed. Sometimes I need and knife and I need it NOW. Using a little wrist motion is the absolutely sure way to get it out and locked up solid.

In the end, this is all about a man who is looking for excuses to back away from his warranty. ANd what damage happens? The lock bar face gets a little bit worn and the stop pin gets a little misshapen. Fix: slightly wider stop pin, resurface lock bar face. Guesstimate on cost: $40 including labor. Oh the horror.

Now, one of the unpleasant parts of having a warranty is that sometimes you get something in that was run over by a truck. You have to honor the warranty. Even if you are basically handing over a new knife. A tie always goes to the runner. The customer is always right. Adjust your pricing accordingly and have a no-haggle, no-questions warranty. You'll develop a reputation that is spotless in the customer care department. Look at busse and kershaw. Their customers are consistently thrilled with the service they receive, even when they drop their knives into a salt marsh and then smash them with hammers.
 
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Not entirely sure I can think of any situation where I would need the extra 5 milliseconds that flicking open a knife rather than simply opening it gives me.
 
Whether or not you are a fan of flicking, I'd rather have freedom to choose. (Speaking generally.)

I think flicking is fun, but definitely not necessary.
 
Joshua J. said:
I thought damage to the stop pin was the main complaint in regard to flicking. If they use the lockbar as the determining factor, I wonder if that means the Umnumzaan is fine since the ceramic lock interface should theoretically wear a groove in the blade before it sees any wear.
Opening a knife slowly seems to engage the lock further than flicking when I do it (I do not use heavy inertial openings though), and what's more, I've had several locks get stuck in the open position after doing some hard cutting (I literally had to jam something in the handle to pry the lock-bar out). As far as lockbar wear is concerned it seems to me that flicking should be the least of your concerns.
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Are these problems you described, are they with CRK's?
 
Nullity said:
Whether or not you are a fan of flicking, I'd rather have freedom to choose. (Speaking generally.)

I think flicking is fun, but definitely not necessary.
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To me listening to it is like someone who clicks a pen over and over or running their nails across a chalkboard.

I also stop videos with that going on......
 
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