Climber found on Mt Adams

well now lets calculate rescue costs, i'm going to go by a recent rescue here in BC, where it cost $5000 for a team of 20 SARTechs , plus vehicles, support etc to go get a lost hiker, took 7 hours.

$5000 divided by approx 4 million people = .00125 cents per person

nuff said.
 
Bushman5 said:
well now lets calculate rescue costs, i'm going to go by a recent rescue here in BC, where it cost $5000 for a team of 20 SARTechs , plus vehicles, support etc to go get a lost hiker, took 7 hours.

$5000 divided by approx 4 million people = .00125 cents per person

nuff said.
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Exactly! :D
 
Dantor said:
He didn't go for a walk in the woods, or on a stroll through the daisies he went mountain climbing "alone" and got in serious trouble and we had to pay for his mistake with other people having to bail him out.

I agree if you want to kill yourself, fine, your right, your life but when yo do it on my bill and life that's way different.

Irresponsible people who think they have a right to do anything not only to themselves but to others are wrong and it's why we have laws because you don't have a right to infringe on my life, i.e. drunk driving, dangerous lifestyle, jumping off your roof because when you get hurt, my tax dollars have to pay for the ambulance, medical bills, police, fire department, rescue people/equipment. Even volunteers have to be trained and equipped.

If you want to prove your something special, find an island, start your own country and do what you please, but until then this is our country which we share and live in.
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No one is asking you to save anyone. Why is it that everything that happens in this country is now an excuse to bloat the budget for some authorities someplece? The truth is that we are all going to die, and there is nothing that anyone can do about it. The only decision left to us is whether we intend to do any living in the time that is left to us. We should worry more about protecting our freedom and less about trying to blindly prolong life by placing in in shackles and on lifesupport. The whole impossible crusade seems quixotic.

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n2s
 
LOL no offense taken, I welcome all views ;) and respect them. but it is true this can get political
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and we have a place for that.

What I think will happen is more and more will get hurt and lost and people will get fed up with it. Their are still bodies that haven't been found from last year (like on Mt Rainier) and people will draw some lines because the life toll and bills will keep mounting and we can't afford it. A few bad apples will ruin it for the rest, like it always does and tighter constrictions will be passed and enforced. I believe in freedom and democracy but that doesn't mean I have the right to infringe on your rights and liberties (see political! :p )

I posted this for idea's and views, to learn, and maybe someone thinking about climbing the mountains this winter will be more prepared and remember people have died and others have sacrificed their own life and time to find them when things go bad, when the unexpected happens and it's more than your life and liberty on the line.
 
not2sharp said:
No one is asking you to save anyone.
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then why do we have police and firemen and rescue and militaries and all the resources for them? maybe because people have asked and wanted it?

we don't live in a video game, this is real life and death not your playground. I don't want to bloat anything I want to live my life but I can't because your hurt or lost and your family or good samaritans want us to save you! it's not all about "YOU!" your not living in your own world.
 
fair enough, i can clearly see where your coming from. And i welcome that view, and expect to hear such views. After all discussion = awareness = knowledge.

the real question is: what knife did the Mt Adams climber have? :)
 
The ONLY reason I would go alone into any wilderness setting is if I were running from the law, and then I don't want to be found!

As Solomon once said:

"If one falls down, his friend can help him up. But pity the man who falls and has no one to help him up!"
 
Personaly I think there are far too many people who have their noses in other peoples business rather than their own.

I nearly always camp and hike alone. Mainly due to the fsct that I don't have anyone to go with. When I do find someone who goes along they usually cna't keep up etc.

I accept responsibility for my own well being and take all reasonable precautions to keep myself fro injury. When in the hills alone I have often had to take longer route in order to avoid problem areas that could have been easily traversed by a party of two or three. Common sense is involved.

In some locales they are now charging for rescues. Now think of this wouldn't you wnt someone to show up if you were hurt on the highway? How would you feel if the State Patrol who is al;ready paid by your tax dollars all th sudden handed you a bill for their services.
 
I think it can go a bit either way. But , I think if a man thinks he can climb a mountain, let him try it! Where would we all be today , if those "stupid" explorers had found whatever continent we live on. I wonder how many of us would be wherever we are if it had not been for men like Magellan or Christopher Columbus
Or soldiers that died fighting for our freedom to choose to hang glide, rock climb, scuba dive or splunking ? How about Steve Irwin ? Crazy ? Maybe, dumb ?Nah. He just had some balls. So did the rest of them.

Remember those SAR guys, god bless them, are volunteers . Even the ones who get paid, no body made them do it. Most of them love the challenge.

I was airborne in the U.S.Army, crazy , a bit, but I asked for the opportunity. To me it was the most exciting thing I could imagine. The thrill or challenge of doing something few can do is what makes some folks lives full and happy. It would have been bad if he died, but he would have died doing something he was probably very passionate about. Few folks can dye that way.

Sorry if that sounded harsh, I just think as humans have a choice. If we want to solo climb we should. Stupid to me would be the guy who decides to hike the AT or something similar , with little or no experience or skills to do it.
 
wildmike said:
In some locales they are now charging for rescues. Now think of this wouldn't you wnt someone to show up if you were hurt on the highway? How would you feel if the State Patrol who is al;ready paid by your tax dollars all th sudden handed you a bill for their services.
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I'm not sure this is a valid comparison. Most people need to be on the roads for their normal day to day life. Going to work, taking the kids somewhere, going shopping, stuff everyone has to do. You pay all kinds of taxes, both direct and indirect, in order to use the roads.

Wandering off into the bush, ill prepared and ill informed is not something you HAVE to do, it's a recreation. If you choose to get your entertainment that way, and there is no reason why you shouldn't, you should be prepared to pay for the consequences if something goes wrong.

To give a local example of what I'm talking about. If you go up into the mountains during Winter to do a bit of skiing, and fall down and break your leg, they guys will collect you and put you in an ambulance and send you off to hospital. If you don't have some sort of medical insurance or ambulance cover, you will pay the ambulance fee for transporting you. That seems fair to me.
 
wildmike said:
In some locales they are now charging for rescues. Now think of this wouldn't you wnt someone to show up if you were hurt on the highway? How would you feel if the State Patrol who is al;ready paid by your tax dollars all th sudden handed you a bill for their services.
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Not comparable. Police are paid. SAR generally aren't publically funded.
 
Dantor said:
I'm glad he's alright and I so Commend the Rescuers and the dog that found him but IMO what he did was foolish.
I'd like to hear what you think...
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I disagree. Are you saying that Les Stroud shouldn't be allowed to produce his films, because he does it on his own? That Bill Mason, arguably, the father of contemporary Canadian wilderness canoeing shouldn't have been allowed to canoe by himself?

I hike a lot by myself, although it isn't a really remote area. Should I not be allowed to do this?

BTW, bladefrienzy good post! :thumbup:

Doc
 
SAR doesn't HAVE to do what they do. Most of the folks I know who do it, like to get out in the woods as much as I do, and like helping other people. They equip themselves, those that have dogs pay for and train them themselves, and they don't look for reimbursement beyond their own satisfaction at helping others.

Myself, if I had to wait for somebody else every time I wanted to get out of my house and go for a hike or whatever, I'd never get to go. Screw that!! I'm going hiking.
 
I take lots of solo trips and ventures into the mountains. Soloing is well worth the risk for most people and they accept those risks. I have been in situations where if I was an idiot I could have died. If your not a climber I can't really explain the joy found in focusing all of your attention on the environment. Soloing requires an awareness of self and surroundings matched by few other endeavors.

When I worked at RMNP in 2004 Rangers stopped a guy heading up Longs Peak. They told him about an approaching storm and told him he was unprepared. He was wearing jeans and a hooded sweatshirt and had no mountaineering gear. He continued anyways and went missing. They found him the next day 100 yards from the summit covered in an inch of ice. Big mountains usually don't give the novice more than one chance.

Experienced mountaineers know their limitations. But sometimes accidents happen. Your more likely to get killed in a traffic accident. Given the choice I'd rather die alone in the mountains.

A lot of these SAR guys love what they do. Most volunteer to do it, they also enjoy the risk. You can't complain they are at risk without considering how many people die each year from far more irresponsible activities like driving drunk. More people are murdered each year than die trying to rescue someone else.

The Rangers I worked with, myself included, liked going out on SAR's because we got hazard pay. :thumbup:
 
bladefrienzy said:
I wonder how many of us would be wherever we are if it had not been for men like Magellan or Christopher Columbus
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I don't think Chris and Mags were "alone!" :D
and I don't think it was harsh at all what you posted, and thank you for your service :thumbup:

Doc your right, what about BearG! Can't get more alone than him :foot: :D

Soloing is well worth the risk for most people and they accept those risks.
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but why do others have to pay for these risks?

Some interesting and valid points everyone,
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I can't see why your so concerned about the supposed "costs", Everything we do has a cost one way or the other. Are you directly paying for it? Are SAR fees being directly removed from your checking account?

I'd rather pay to send out SAR teams than bail out banks.

If all people care about is the "cost to them" they need to get over it.

I'd also like to see a firefighter, paramedic or SAR member that hates his job and feels he is being jeopardized. Most of them do it because they love helping people and enjoy it....not because they are forced to do so. If a SAR team is made up of volunteers...guess what? There is no cost!

When I have encountered people in need of help I give it without hesitation. I don't ruminate over the risk or think, "what's in it for me". Helping people is it's own reward.
 
ilbruche said:
A lot of these SAR guys love what they do. Most volunteer to do it, they also enjoy the risk. You can't complain they are at risk without considering how many people die each year from far more irresponsible activities like driving drunk. More people are murdered each year than die trying to rescue someone else.
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This comes perilously close to comparing solo hikers or climbers, a largely experienced, self-reliant type, with drunks and murderers and victims. The question before us has nothing to do with that. It hinges much more on how society takes responsibility for its lost and injured.

How do we assess fault?
How do we fund emergency services?

Of course anyone who wants to go off on their own, and really doesn't want the rest of humanity breathing down his neck, has every right to do so. Every responsible, contributing member of a society has reason to expect help if the situation deteriorates, even if he is partly at fault. (You have a right to make mistakes.)

At what point does society at large need to set limits to what it will be expected to provide? We live in a wide-spread, populous, and diverse society, and different jurisdictions will answer these questions in their own way.
 
I have a real problem with some of the thinking showing up here lately regarding solo adventures and SAR teams, etc. This will probably be seen as urinating in someone's cereal, so if you're sensitive, skip this post.


Let's get down to brass tacks. SAR guy volunteer to do what they do. If you're a SAR guy and you're bitching about going after stupid people, then quit. Guess what your job is? You volunteered, it's your fault if you don't like it. If we paid SAR guys (maybe if we could get enough people to go out and get injured, we could justify full time paid SAR teams?), then it'd be your job to go rescue people, stupid or not. Again, even if paid, if you don't like it, quit. It's not up to you to decide who to go after, and especially not who deserves to be rescued.

Which brings up another point: you say that people should be charged if they do something stupid and need rescue. Who decides what is stupid? I don't care who you think should, who will is some jackass bureaucrat who thinks getting out to the great outdoors is grilling on his back patio. And what is stupid? Everyone makes mistakes. But you have some people with "hard man syndrome" who seem to think that anyone who doesn't do what they armchair quarterback is stupid and deserves to die.

Someone could be doing something totally safe, and they end up breaking a leg and need a rescue. Don't think it can happen? You can trip walking down your hallway, land right (wrong?) and break a leg. Why not int he wilderness. Is traveling a hallway now something that is stupid to do alone?

I just get sick of the soccer mom thinking that nothing can be done if it isn't perfectly safe. Like others have said, if I had to go out with someone else, I'd never get out.
 
Clearly, some people post here to contribute to an understanding of the situation.
Others post to let us know how tough they are.

You guys are on your own.
 
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