Climber found on Mt Adams

Thanks Esav, I always enjoy and appreciate your post.

I figure it's important to know and understand how people think and feel because we will have to deal with them.
(in cyber and real life)
 
I don't really have the stones to go camping or hiking on my own, but I'm gonna do it one day, just because I think it would be a good learning curve.

And because it can be difficult to find people who share common interests with you and find 'roughing it' a pleasurable experience.

If people get into trouble... well, I think this has been happening since time immemorial. Its human nature to want to go rambling off alone.

And SAR people are usually volunteers who enjoy their work...as many have pointed out here. If they didn't, they wouldn't put their hands up.
 
gajinoz said:
Wandering off into the bush, ill prepared and ill informed is not something you HAVE to do, it's a recreation. If you choose to get your entertainment that way, and there is no reason why you shouldn't, you should be prepared to pay for the consequences if something goes wrong.
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what about those of us that ARE prepared and ARE well informed?

FWIW, i have soloed since i have been 8 (28 years now, i;m 36). Ihave been one exactly 4 multiperson hikes/wilderness excursions in my life. Being prepared and informed is second nature.

EDIT: i'm just tired of people/media/gubmint types feeling the need to tell me whats safe or whats not safe. Its none of their business. I mind my own affairs and govern myself accordingly and take responsibility for my own actions. Some people dont like that.
 
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1Tracker said:
Only fool's think they are infallible, the rest heed the cautions of the wilderness. I for one wished people like this 'experienced climber' were held financially accountable for every dollar that was spend plus a month in jail for stupidity and being a hazard to society at large. I would've been more happy to read that his body was recovered because then at least i could have faith in my education and Darwin's Theory!
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WOW..hows the view from way up there....Jeesh..so rescuers are not supposed to rescue? If they dont want to; they dont have to. Anyone can have something happen to them, this was an unfortunate thing...that ended happily with him ALIVE...I cant believe you are wishing him dead!
Guys, its very easy to sit at our keyboards and judge others...also we are not EVER present for one of these NEWS articles..for all we know, we are only getting half the story..but I digress...I dont want to feel like I need to ask for a groups opinion before I go out and LIVE! If I want to go take a chance thats my business...if a rescuer has to "save" me...well, hes DOING HIS JOB...I get a kick outta rescuers complaining...if you dont wanna risk your ass, jump the fence and start hiking with the STUPID hikers...teach them something, maybe you'll find that they are just people trying to go out and have a good time.
Man, the attitude in here has been hostile lately..I know that I have contributed to some of that in the past..but I wont be anymore..
Gene
 
baldtaco-II said:
Excellent, I'm really enjoying the way this thread is turning. Whilst on one hand I do throw a good amount of scorn at people that take on adventures that clearly exceed their abilities, and I mock, and point, and laugh when they come a cropper they have the absolute right to do so. I'd feel differently if it were a team leader who misrepresented themselves and put others in peril, but if persons want to subject themselves to danger more power to them.

I think there is a mindset that wants to sanitize the outdoors as a big playground with rules and regulations and checklists. To some extend I think that is good when it is for the sake of conservation, but if a person, an autonomous human being, wants to completely disregard what is sensible or life preserving, well then good luck. The opposite is a path to hell. Consider just how arbitrary those rules and regulations are. Romans marched a good length of my country, including the cold bits in sandals. I believe it would be a dumb thing to do now, but if a guy wants to run the risk of frost bitten feet ... What other lines should we draw up. Do we test people for a proficiency badge. Do we decide that fabrics have come on a long way over the last 20yrs, so upgrade or you're not going out. So on and so on.

One of the primary reasons I come on this bit of the forum is that my country is so regulated, sanitized, and parceled up into packages that are easy to digest for plebs, the outdoors is easy to master. Yet here, in the US, although from what I can gather [trying to avoid politics] despite silly legislations coming in, there is at least the promise of “wilderness” and “freedom”. Cling hold of that and treasure what is left of it.
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WOW, better said ..good show old chap! ( I am probubly on your ignore list by now, but I like the way you write man.:D)
 
Dantor said:
He didn't go for a walk in the woods, or on a stroll through the daisies he went mountain climbing "alone" and got in serious trouble and we had to pay for his mistake with other people having to bail him out.

I agree if you want to kill yourself, fine, your right, your life but when yo do it on my bill and life that's way different.

Irresponsible people who think they have a right to do anything not only to themselves but to others are wrong and it's why we have laws because you don't have a right to infringe on my life, i.e. drunk driving, dangerous lifestyle, jumping off your roof because when you get hurt, my tax dollars have to pay for the ambulance, medical bills, police, fire department, rescue people/equipment. Even volunteers have to be trained and equipped.

If you want to prove your something special, find an island, start your own country and do what you please, but until then this is our country which we share and live in.
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Dantor,
I love you bro, but I gotta disagree here..I mean really??? with the way our tax dollars a squandered and stolen...are we really gonna complain about them being used in ONE good way..FIRE/POLICE/EMS-RESCUE, IMO is the best way to spend MY money that you have taken without my permision...lets not look into all the other ways our hard earned money is thrown in the basket by bureaucrats. I dont wanna turn this politcal, but I dont want that argument thrown in here..without a rebutal.
"anything the government can give you, they have already TAKEN from you"
 
Dantor said:
then why do we have police and firemen and rescue and militaries and all the resources for them? maybe because people have asked and wanted it?

we don't live in a video game, this is real life and death not your playground. I don't want to bloat anything I want to live my life but I can't because your hurt or lost and your family or good samaritans want us to save you! it's not all about "YOU!" your not living in your own world.
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maybe those people should go prepared and have back up plans instead of needing to rely on others. ;) I see it far to often up here, people go into the woods with nothing more than their cell phone, because they know they can just call 911 and they will be taken care of.
 
gunknifenut said:
with the way our tax dollars a squandered and stolen...are we really gonna complain about them being used in ONE good way..FIRE/POLICE/EMS-RESCUE, IMO is the best way to spend MY money that you have taken without my permision...lets not look into all the other ways our hard earned money is thrown in the basket by bureaucrats. I dont wanna turn this politcal, but I dont want that argument thrown in here..without a rebutal.
"anything the government can give you, they have already TAKEN from you"
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;) point taken and agreed but lets put $ amount aside for discussion sake, If I were to go climbing (or other dangerous activity) alone, and not prepared and a rescuer or pilot or any of the many people involved in these operations were to get injured or worst because of me, professional or not, I don't think I could ever do that activity again, the guilt would be to much, but that's just me.

Granted we don't know all the circumstances and the full details of what happened to this guy (like stated and what did he have?), but I hear about this all the time since living here (going on 2 years now) and I have been wondering "Why?" and what can be done. Education, awareness, discussions like this one, other?

Our choices and lifestyles/hobbies do effect others, whether we want to believe it or not.
 
It always comes down to people defending ridiculous behavior because of freedom, we're not communist China, our right to do so, etc. Going mountain climbing alone is simply a very foolish act. In hunters education the rule to abide by, is never hunt alone. If you are injured in a accident your partners can get help and lead rescuers to you. When your alone, nobody really knows you are climbing, hunting, or hiking. Anyone can justify anything they wish, but that dosen't make it right. So many grown men never develop comman sense, and never mentaly progress beyond that of an adolecent teen.
 
Wow, great thread! Some interesting opinions being expressed as well.

Just another .02 here...
I thought I knew my limitations once, then I joined the military and was forced to reevaluate them quickly. I've been doing so ever since. How does one determine their limitations without moving outside of their comfort zone from time to time? Should we take haphazard risks? No but, at what point do you know you have reached your limitations and how do you plan on finding out? Can someone else tell you what your limitations are when you probably don't know them yourself?

Everyone I've ever known who was involved in SAR enjoyed the job. They certainly don't do it for the pay LOL!
 
more info reported;

"Authorities believe he has climbed a few mountains but does not have extensive alpine experience.
They also believe he has never before climbed Mount Adams.

He was wearing a fleece, a cap and either wind pants or jeans -- clothing that ill prepares him for an extended stay on the mountain's upper elevations, where nighttime temperatures have dipped into the 20s this week."
 
So a lot of people seem to have this feeling that everyone that goes into the outdoors alone is an irresponsible threat to society. They are childish thrill seekers that should accept the fate given to them and no rescue should ever be initiated to save them. This premise itself is very selfish.

I guess I'm just someone who wouldn't hesitate to risk his own life to save another.

How many of you out there have been involved in a search and rescue operation? Either the rescuer or person being rescued?

People usually only get one chance to make a big mistake in the mountains. Inexperienced people that survive such an ordeal often make it their last, unless they don't survive. Not a lot of folks have the mental grit to handle such a situation. I'm sorry if I can't understand why people feel someone in need is not worth a little compassion. Just know that if I ever come across you in need I'll help out without hesitation....although I don't expect this kindness to be reciprocated.
 
ilbruche said:
Just know that if I ever come across you in need I'll help out without hesitation....although I don't expect this kindness to be reciprocated.
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I'd help you buddy;)

I for one go out alone most of the time simply because its difficult to find someone to go with me. My schedules a lil wierd and I don't have any close friends who share the same love to be outdoors that I have. If I had alot of people around me that liked to go hiking and such, I probably wouldn't need to spend so much time here. I agree with Ilbruche, and others. Everyone deserves a some help, yes this guy should have been more prepared
but that doesn't mean let him rot ontop of a mountain.
 
rick43t3 said:
It always comes down to people defending ridiculous behavior because of freedom, we're not communist China, our right to do so, etc. Going mountain climbing alone is simply a very foolish act. In hunters education the rule to abide by, is never hunt alone. If you are injured in a accident your partners can get help and lead rescuers to you. When your alone, nobody really knows you are climbing, hunting, or hiking. Anyone can justify anything they wish, but that dosen't make it right. So many grown men never develop comman sense, and never mentaly progress beyond that of an adolecent teen.
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wow. simply wow.
 
+1, I'm with Bushman on this. I've been going into the woods alone since I was a young kid. Was I as prepared as I should have been, nope. But I did have a basic knowledge of the woods by then and most adults at the time couldn't keep up . Solitary time in the mountains or deep woods is a very peaceful thing for me . I go with the wife and friends alot too. But will always have some alone time. I'll keep doing it too.
 
I ususally go out alone.
My wife has a very specific map of where I'll be and we follow timelines very closely. Last year I barely made the "if I don't call by ____, something is wrong" one night. She was getting a little freaked , but I did call with about 10 min to spare !
 
Right, I've tried taking the 'in principle' approach, noting that any lines you would draw would be totally arbitrary. And that even if you could devise some kind of lines, and people were willing to submit their kit for inspection and have a test of proficiency of their skills it would still, if anything, be only relevant to the very narrow band of time we could allocate to approximately now. I also happen to believe that not only is such an endeavour futile it is also morally bankrupt. So I'll try a different track.

What is the estimated cost of rescues of people stuck up hills and lost in the wilderness .etc each year in the US? Is it a big portion of the funds for emergency services and healthcare? How does it relate to other recreational activities, obesity, sports, and so on. Is it up the big end or down the shallow end? The reason I wonder is that here, although our healthcare system is very different to yours, it is pretty clear that many more people harm themselves and require medical intervention after an ill advised episode of DIY. It is my understanding there is has never been a proposal for restrictions on who may do DIY, nor any kind of inspector to ensure the home enthusiast has the correct tools for the job.
 
rick43t3 said:
It always comes down to people defending ridiculous behavior because of freedom, we're not communist China, our right to do so, etc. Going mountain climbing alone is simply a very foolish act. In hunters education the rule to abide by, is never hunt alone. If you are injured in a accident your partners can get help and lead rescuers to you. When your alone, nobody really knows you are climbing, hunting, or hiking. Anyone can justify anything they wish, but that dosen't make it right. So many grown men never develop comman sense, and never mentaly progress beyond that of an adolecent teen.
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I want to know what hunter safety course you took..?:rolleyes: I ALWAYS hunt alone...how do you explain 2 guys sitting in a tree stand? this is simply silly..unless its a father and son/ daughter team.
My family knows where I hunt, and when I go to a park, I tell the park attendent or ranger where I intend to go, and my wife knows when to expect me. If I was going to go "extreme" I think that a GPS locator would be the way to go..but if you dont want to take something like this...its your choice....because this IS America, and we can be free to do whatever dumb stuff we want to.;) Chinese officials would hope you die..they are overpopulated I think?
NH state motto...: Live Free or Die:thumbup:
 
tonym said:
I'd help you buddy;)

I for one go out alone most of the time simply because its difficult to find someone to go with me. My schedules a lil wierd and I don't have any close friends who share the same love to be outdoors that I have. If I had alot of people around me that liked to go hiking and such, I probably wouldn't need to spend so much time here. I agree with Ilbruche, and others. Everyone deserves a some help, yes this guy should have been more prepared
but that doesn't mean let him rot ontop of a mountain.
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I to go out alone because I dont have anyone close to me that is into hunting or bushcraft. I do alot of prep and planning for the outdoors..I am a serious gear junkie, read a TON or books and go out all the time...I feel like a medium level kinda woodsman..until I spend a few weeks out in the woods alone..I dont really feel like a REAL woodsman. A month in the deep woods would be the gauntlet IMO...even with a buddy or 2, but I think that it should be done...just to see what you can do.
I will say that mountain climbing is a serious endeavor, and I dont consider it in the same league as hiking, even long distance hiking..which can have its own set of serious risks..2 legged and 4..heat and injury...all can happen anywhere in the world. But Mountain climbing takes alot of schooling.
 
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