Cloak & Dagger Exotica

The only problem with the pen is, you are going to have to have a matching cap.

Other than that, I think all of this is great, people need to voice their support on this so we can have a go at it.
 
Don,
Regardless of the level of detail on the C.I. Pencil, I agree that an aftermarket (larger) eraser is a good cost cutting mearure. It may also add handling control and makes a good thumb stop when gripped.

You know, with all the funky color paint jobs I see on novelty pencils, I think any anodized color is fine. The pencil would look as though it has a metallic color paint coating.

So, a bright purple anodized Ti shaft with a big green eraser on its end would virtually disappear in a pocket protector, organizer, or desktop.

I'm still gonna make the detailed one, just for giggles.

My material is on order.
 
Depending on how many other people chime in during the next few days, I know at least 6 are spoken for from one person and I would like 2 of them.

Everyone else, get your hands on it now while the project is in utero.
 
Don,

I got my Dejammer from Mas himself back in '91. Can't remember how much it cost me. I just went to his site (http://www.ayoob.com) but couldn't find them for sale. Maybe I didn't look carefully enough though, since I was in a hurry.

I'm very interested in the C.I. project, though price will pretty much determine whether I'll buy it now or later. As you can imagine, I've been saving for that big move, which is my priority. Besides, if I wait to buy it in the US, I won't have to give Brazilian Big Brother 60 percent of its value, which happens everytime I order something from abroad:mad: In other words, I'm paying to be oppressed... But I digress.

Following that great thread with baited breath,

Leo
 
Oliver,

If you look back through this thread, you will see the earlier (months ago) comments on all of the available Guardfather Versions.

I actually got into an E-mail argument with someone on Bladeforums over a Guardfather. I asked them if the one they had was an "Original Guardfather with, 'Made in Italy' on the side of the pocket clip," and they informed me that they had an "Original" and "Made in Italy" was never on the side of a Guardfather's pocket clip...OK...

I know the company that made the Originals marked that way was in Georgia and I don't know if that was marketing or not, but those were the best ones, in this case, the first was the best. I have heard of a few "Sterile" versions of the first one. But it should have a steel body and have checkering on the body. You can tell the Originals by the heavy feel of them and checkering together. If either is absent, it is not an "Original Guardfather."

That was a specific design.

After the original came a steel body knock off that had no checkering. Same design, poor execution.

Then an anodized aluminum body with an insert in it, other than that, same design and they were not too hot either.

The GF IV from SWAT (the one you posted) and I believe their Model III are different designs and they are better than the Original Knock-Offs.

The GF IV from SWAT is probably a safer unit, I have seen folks who have them under constant load [the spring] and the spring will take a set. If the spring were a better quality spring, combined with the increased safety over the Original Design...I think it would be about the best.

The GF IV has a recessed button and that right there is a vast improvement over the Original...the Original GF had a very short spring and stronger and I have never seen an Original that was a piece of trash or fail to fire.

The GF IV uses a longer spring for constant push until lock-up. Different design. I think they're cool.
 
Don,
Wow that is a great reply and you covered pretty much all I wanted to know. Also, if you ever pass by an extra Mint Original Version Guardfather, please let me know as I would like one. I have already one GF4 and another is on the way because I like the design etc Now, really need that first version...

Ref the Ti blade I posted a link for, I thought that you might like that design as a concealed OSS/SOE version.I am getting a matt finished version of this.

Warmest wishes,
Oliver
 
Oliver,

Imagine this, disassemble your GF IV and take the spike to someone and have it reproduced exactly in Titanium. Then, add a slightly stronger (tempered better as well) spring...
 
about the Ti pencil idea:
Isn't a regular metal pen cheaper, legaler, just as sharp, and a functional writing instument? I just don't see the advantage.
 
Originally posted by callahwj
about the Ti pencil idea:
Isn't a regular metal pen cheaper,[1]
legaler,[2]
just as sharp,[3]
and a functional writing instument?[4]
I just don't see the advantage.[5]

[1] Yes, a pen is cheaper, well unless you want a GOOD ONE.
[2] Depends on where you are, this is a "Scribe."
[3] No, a pen is not needle sharp.
[4] Yes, you can write with a pen and not a Ti-Spike.
[5] I can't really help you.

Now, you don't see the advantage, did you have anything positive to add? I see some negativity in your Post, some condescension in your remarks. Of course a sharpened Metal Rod is going to be "sharper," more specifically, not sharp, but pointy.

You can get a needle point on Ti. This alone is indicative of a Superior Defensive Device.

<font color=red>"Getting down to basics, even a factory-made lockback folder or bowie-style hunter will punch through a flak vest. Please do not take exception to the 'thousands-of-pounds-per-square-inch' comment. One might only have 50 or 60 foot pounds of energy behind a stroke, but, when concentrated on the needle point of a blade, it literally adds up to an astronomical amount of PSI.</font>

~Bob Engnath, Blade Magazine, August 1999

Hope that helped to clear up my thoughts on the matter and the way I think and come up with the things I do. :)
 
Don:
I apologize if I was condescending. I was just trying to play devils advocate, so to speak. It is a cool idea, but I was thinking of a thread on practical tactical a while back. People were talking about using pens for keatings drawpoint system. One thing I personaly wouldn't want to do is try to explain to a new york state DA why I have a titanium stabing implement disguised as a pencil. Now a pen is a pen, and it would be very hard for anyone to call it a weapon. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I'm just saying raises lots of legal red-flags in my mind. I think this thread is awesome and I've enjoyed following it, and again, I apologize if I gave offense.

P.S. And I see your point on the sharpness issue, you're right.
 
[Legal Disclaimer: I don't advocate ANYONE doing ANYTHING legal or otherwise]

A friend of mine who is a local law enforcement officer told me once, "If I was alone and no one was around and someone tried to kill me, I would do them on the spot and walk..."

Now, as I always say, you have to survive the incident in order to get to the Courtroom.

I'm not advocating lawlessness, I'm commenting on Survival. Let me go back and copy and paste something I said just a couple of days ago in "Practical Tactical."

"I try to keep a can of O.C. in the Car. This message will Self-destruct in 7 days...if they kick your car and no one is looking, you fog them and then if a stink is raised, you lie. Simple as that.

"He kicked the car then threw a punch at me and I used the Pepper Spray."

Do you lie to be a prick or a cretin? Of course not, you lie because of the way The System is. If the guy is stupid, crazy or violent enough to kick your car, then he is capable of something else on a personal level, meaning, stomping your guts out, etc.

American Courts do not recognize the Preemptive Strike as Legitimate Self-defense. When you told him you were not going to give him any money, he should have left. Period. That's a peaceful "Panhandler." This guy was a Rock Monster looking for Crack Money.

The System forces you to lie to Protect Yourself, because The System is absurd.

Should you have been snotty? Maybe not. Maybe you were not really snotty at all considering the Element you were dealing with.

Just like if you know you are going to get hit, because the person has told you he is going to kick your ass. Hit him first. Beware of Witnesses. That's Survival, it is so easy for some Police Officer, Prosecutor, Judge or Jury to sit in Judgment of a person after the fact, because in the safety of a Court Room, everything is just rosey and the Dirtbag is cleaned up and well-dressed [in most cases] and everything has changed. Everything changes then and you get nailed to the cross for defending yourself.

Be as dirty, filthy, stinking rotten as they can be. And be as Judgmental as the Authorities are. You just be Judgmental to the attacker. The System passes Judgment on you, why not you them?

That's the nature of things right now. Sad state of affairs.

I did not say, maim him, shoot, cut, stab, beat or run him over. Pepper is a wonderful thing...

Always be aware that you have to Survive in order to get to The Courtroom to begin with...another reality lost on the clueless running The System."

Now, I have seen well-meaning LEOs on these Forums state that, "Flight equals guilt."

That's a crock of shit. Flight equals flight.

Let's talk about something in The Real World...let us ignore "The System" for a moment. Let's assume that "The System" is cool and would not come after you for defending yourself...

Why run?

Immediately exit the area because you do not know if there are multiple attackers, the person's "friends and associates." Danger.

If you hang around, you're liable to be attacked again.

If you hang around until law enforcement arrives, as far as the Police are concerned, you're standing over someone really tore up or dead and YOU'RE the THREAT to THEM NOW. Bad situation. Best to leave.

Even if you do want to turn yourself in, do it elsewhere, preferably with your Attorney Present when you do so.

If you feel the need to turn yourself in, use a payphone and call the Police and tell them you were attacked and defended yourself and that you will be coming in with your Attorney and NOTHING ELSE. Immediately leave that area as well...

Two days after your information is provided to Law Enforcement, every one of that person's family, friends and "associates" are going to know your name and where you live. Count on it.

I'm NOT saying, "Be a Vigilante," or anything like that, that is lying in wait for someone, I'm talking about someone trying to cut your throat and you defend yourself.

A Prosecutor will Sacrifice your ass on The Altar of Career Advancement in a HEARTBEAT.

Your Attorney will take your house defending you unless you are wealthy.

If you are successful in defending yourself criminally, the person that attacked you, or his family are going to have a shot at what is left of your belongings and paycheck in a Civil Suit.

In order to defend yourself against that, you give up the rest of your belongings and go into extreme debt to hire your Attorney to once again, defend you.

I know it sounds harsh, but it is reality and reality is often harsh.

I've also heard, "Well, we'll know who you are and we will have the SWAT Team at your house."

Yeah...OK...run a make on the guy laying in the street, check his pockets, and then do a blood toxicology on him and then come back and tell me who you are looking for from the evidence at the site.

When this screwy System respects the Rights of Individuals without attempting and in some cases succeeding at ruining them, I'll play by that set of rules.

As long as it remains hostile to my Civil Rights, I will, whenever possible, try to remain anonymous.
 
I was checking the "Koppo and Ti Stick" thread and was pretty much surprised when I saw the Shomer-tec Ti-Bop advertised for US$ 19. They also have a "Titanium Charge Card" for the same price. My question is: how expensive is titanium? Are we talking about different grades? And if so, would a cheaper grade be strong enough for the C.I. project? After all, it won't have to take and keep an edge, as a knife would...
It goes without saying that metallurgy is not my cup of tea...

Anyway, besides having my questions answered, I really wanted to keep this thread on top. ;)

And Don, I don't have to tell you that I agree with your comments on the System.


Leo
 
Leo, costs of the aforementioned products would not be greatly affected by price differences between C.P. and Alloyed grades.
An example from Online Metals (present market value) for an 12" length of 5/16" dia. rod.
C.P. Grade 2= $19
C.P. Grade 4= $19
Grade 5= $20
Grade 5 ELI (used for surgical implants)= $21
Percentage of price difference drops as quantity increases.
Different suppliers prices will vary.

Any consumer can find surplus Ti material on the internet, or from an industrial supplier or manufacturing facility. Buying from a certifiable source allows a maker to accurately advertise his wares.

For most applications, where high corrosion resistance and a high strength-to-weight ratio is desired, Grade 5 has been a steady, proven performer. This is titanium alloyed with 6% Aluminum, and 4% Vanadium (Ti6Al-4V). This alloy is going to be chosen so that the point will stay pointy, C.P. grades would bend easier. Grade 5 ELI has slightly lower strength than ordinary Grade 5. I don't think anybody wants to deal with the added price of heat-treatable grades/associated costs.

Hope this is helpful to you.
 
Will,

Let us know when you have a somewhat firm price on the finished piece, give or take $10.00

Also, would you be willing to do other spike forms in the same genre?

I have quite a few more ideas that are as simple, effective and easy to Manufacture with the same equipment as this piece if you are willing to give it a go, I will sit down over the next couple/few days and draw them up again, scan them, convert them to JPG and have them off to you in E-mail.

Neat stuff...
 
My first material order is not scheduled to arrive until Friday, July 13th :eek:.

There are a few items I will definitely be making over the next few months. Once I complete those I may be willing/interested to work on other ideas. Please understand, this is not a brush-off. I am considering a time frame to get a few widgets out to some people who will enjoy them. My window of opportunity to accomplish this, before certain circumstances intervene, is narrow. I simply do not want to let anyone down.

FWIW, an expedient tool that may fit the bill for some:
A titanium hex wrench by Imprex.
The short arm of the tool can protrude between two fingers and the long can extend just beyond the meaty end of a closed hand. The ends can modified to suit the handler, the mid-section can be wrapped, or left plain.
They can be found at:
search under titanium hex wrenches
5/16" or 8mm wrench: $37.51
a big price jump to 3/8" or 10mm wrench: $70.45

Have a good day.
 
This is loosely connected to an earlier post on bracelet fighting.
While looking through the Mcmaster-Carr catalog I saw they had those slash/cut guard mail gloves used by meat processors. If stainless was too heavy for someone, now they come in titanium.
sizes from XXS thru XXL.

Disclaimer: There are so many varied, beautiful, interesting and effective substances to work with out there, so don't accuse me of being fixated on one material. But shucks, man, they're making gloves out of titanium now... Who'd've thunk it?
 
Hi,

I will go for two Ti pens. If you guys go for a fullTi version of Guardfather 4, I will go for 2 units as well!
Warmest wishes,

Oliver
 
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