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Recommendation? Cmp m4, 3v, 4v and their relatives
- Thread starter Bosker
- Start date
Hi
That's exactly (almost) the steel I was searching for. Very tought (almost as 3v) and being easier to sharpen (and its cheaper!
) .
Could be more prone to rusting but I don't care, like everything it has its advantages and disadvantages, i love doing patinas... Let's see what knives I can find with this beauty
.
That's exactly (almost) the steel I was searching for. Very tought (almost as 3v) and being easier to sharpen (and its cheaper!
) .Could be more prone to rusting but I don't care, like everything it has its advantages and disadvantages, i love doing patinas... Let's see what knives I can find with this beauty
.Hi that's very nice I'm happy for you! And about the sharpening... really? I don't know then why i see alot of people in other threads saying the knife will scratch the stone instead of the other way around. I guess they are just too lazy to stay a little more time with the stones than just 5 minutes with diamonds...
I'm still not sure if 80crv2 or cpm 3v is the best for me. But being just 100$ the Master Hunter it's awesome!
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2016
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- 6,630
When you get into these types of steel with lots of Vanadium your going to want to use diamond, cbn or SiC stones. Water stones aren't idea imho. These stones listed will be faster and be able to sharpen the Vanadium. Sic while not as hard as Vanadium will be harder than most of the carbides in those steels at over 60hrc. And when kept coarse say up to 1000 grit will evade the tiny micron carbides. But if still strop them on diamond or cbn for a nice crisp and sticky apex.
M4 has high toughness and edge retention and has edge stability so it will bend vs chip. It can still chip but mostly at higher hrc #s. It's an excellent tool steel that will patina and if not taken care of will rust (but not that easy).
3v was created from s30v and 3v is indeed very high toughness for a stainless. D3v is indeed a better heat treatment offering better stainless properties.
4v has less toughness but higher edge retention than 3v. However 4v is more rust prone.
I wouldn't put M4 in the same category as 3v or 4v. To me it's fairly different.
M4 is a bit harder to re profile ime. But nothing hard with the right abrasives.
I would suggest trying cruwear, aeb-l, 52100 etc.
M4 has high toughness and edge retention and has edge stability so it will bend vs chip. It can still chip but mostly at higher hrc #s. It's an excellent tool steel that will patina and if not taken care of will rust (but not that easy).
3v was created from s30v and 3v is indeed very high toughness for a stainless. D3v is indeed a better heat treatment offering better stainless properties.
4v has less toughness but higher edge retention than 3v. However 4v is more rust prone.
I wouldn't put M4 in the same category as 3v or 4v. To me it's fairly different.
M4 is a bit harder to re profile ime. But nothing hard with the right abrasives.
I would suggest trying cruwear, aeb-l, 52100 etc.
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- Joined
- Aug 1, 2014
- Messages
- 1,577
Worksharp makes a nice field sharpener. The guides for the diamond stones are at 20 degrees. They can be removed too. The sharpener also utilizes a ceramic rod and a strop. Very versatile sharpener that doesn’t take up much space. All my knives are sharpened to sub 20 dps so I will hit the apex immediately. The cost is around $30. Taking care of 3v in the field should be a breeze.
Hi thanks for the comment. I'm in Europe but I dont find a lot of info about Böhler K340, does it have another name? Is it more tough than 3v and easier to sharpen?
If you want to test 80crv2 you can get the Terävä mini puukko or mini skrama for around 20 dollars + shipping (around 10 dollars I think). I ordered one yesterday, just to try the steel
It ships from Finland.
hugofeynman
Gold Member
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- Jan 18, 2011
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- 932
Adam Kornalski (here at the forum) also makes great Blades in A8mod (Polish version, NZ4) for a very reasonable price! Go check his Instagram page and see some of the knives he has made to me (the biggest you see in his IG account, I have 7 made by him, 5 are monsters). Another maker who works with a super tough steel is Giedymin. His NZ3 blades are worth a looking (I already have three from him). Check also Dulo knives on YouTube. He also makes great blades in A8mod steel in 6,8 mm thick(his A8mod steel is from Bestar, Germany. Top quality material).
Greetings from Portugal!
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Ah yea my bad. I just know it's not too bad with stainless depending on the ht. For example d3v is very stainless. 3v is indeed a tool steel.
Check out some of these articles
http://seamountknifeworks.com/articles.html
Here's an article from that page on 4v. There was one on 3v at some point in time.
http://seamountknifeworks.com/js/web/viewer.html?file=articles/pdf/CPM 4V road test.pdf
hugofeynman
Gold Member
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- Jan 18, 2011
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- 932
Sorry, NZ3 is not stainless at all!
I will contact with them! Is there any difference with Nz3 and Nz4 or was it a typo? Nz4 is a8mod but the polish version right? Thank you vizinho
Greetings from Spain!
Sorry, NZ3 is not stainless at all!
That's good, I hate stainless. I love me some rust and patina
hugofeynman
Gold Member
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NZ4 is A8mod Polish version and NZ3 is S1 (shock resistant steel) Polish version also. NZ3 is Giedymin most used and trusted steel, tough like old boots but will rust! NZ4 is almost as tough as NZ3, but will not rust under normal use. Both these guys are great, Giedymin has an YouTube channel where he uses (and abuses) some of his knives, Kornalski is also a really good maker, my Kornalskis monsters (Two in K600 steel (beyond tough steel), two in Vanadis 4 extra and one in Caldie) are my most beloved knives, on pair with my Fredrik Haakonsen in Vanadis 4 extra (little one, Fredrik Knives are really expensive, but you’ll get what you pay for). I’ m mostly a knife collector, not really a user, but ask Inkedreaper1 (IG account) his opinion about Kornalski knives and he will tell you he loves his knives! He has more than 10, in V4e, K600, A8mod (NZ4) and this guy uses his knives for real!I will contact with them! Is there any difference with Nz3 and Nz4 or was it a typo? Nz4 is a8mod but the polish version right? Thank you vizinho
Greetings from Spain!
Dulo Knives is also someone to look at, super humble maker from Bulgaria that does his own heat treatments (he has access to Cryogenic treatment) and can heat treat anything (I have Knives from him in A8mod (Bestar, Germany), Ultrafort (Maraging Steel (beyond tough), H11 ESR (beyond tough), Vanadis 4 extra (with cryo and low temper) and Elmax. Nice prices and a very good work! Some guys have tested his work on YouTube, Survivalvegan and Dutch Buschcraft Knives, to name a few. Of course there’s very good US makers (Busse, Gossman, James Helm being some of my favorites), I tend to comission in EU only because of Portuguese customs.
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I don't think many makers have used K340 much in knives yet, but they are starting, and it has been performing very well. I have 2, an they are amazing. The toughness will depend on the heat treat. The 2 knives I have in K340 are hardened to 62-63HRC, which is the high end of hardness, since it is a small fixed blade. At that hardness, the edge holding is comparable to 3V at 59-61 HRC with a good low temper HT protocol. It has very good edge stability, and not sure about toughness, but it has taken quite a bit of abuse so far. If I wanted a larger tough fixed blade, like 5.5-7 inch blade, I'd probably take the hardness down a bit.
As for another name, it is also called SRV2W, but that is Ingot form, and K340 is ESR. Just different ways of producing the steel. Anyways, it is a great steel, and we should, hopefully, start seeing more knives in it. Very easy to sharpen, very tough, and great edge holding. Not to mention good corrosion resistance for a carbon steel. Hope it gets used more!
Sleipner is a European steel that is widely used. Not as good as 3V in my opinion, but it is tough, has good edge holding, and has decent corrosion resistance.
But, steel is just one part. Heat treatment and blade geometry play a HUGE role, especially for a tough, larger fixed blade.
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ScooterG
You mean Ireland? Yeah, it’s mine.
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Don’t forget about Cruwear and 52100, because they’re the best!No problem! I do confuse them too lol. Thanks for the info, we all in the forum appreciate it.
Remember when in the first i said my mind was in the sky? Now it's going road heaven...
I'm not sure if 3v, or 80crv2, or O2, A8mod, Nz3 or Nz4 etc... I hope yall understand me
Kidding mostly... All of the steels recommended so far look to be great choices and you won’t go wrong with them. If I were you, I would get with
ShannonSteelLabs
and have a one to one email (or phone?) discussion with him. He has valuable wisdom in that he makes knives for himself and others. Most here have limited knowledge related to their own use. A maker...doesn’t have to be him...is going to have knowledge and resulting experience from many angles that benefit him/her and the recommendations they can make. Good luck and trust your instincts as they’re usually correct.
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So about sharpening 3V. I find touching up after a long day or two of using the blade is extremely easy. As long as you touch the edge up regularly after use. The only part that is difficult is re-profiling the edge. I re-profile my edges only once every 1-3 years depending on how much I use that blade, and if I can keep the edge from getting too thick. But up until then, really all I use for touch ups is a medium grit ceramic and a strop, and on a very rare occasion, a fine grit diamond, which I really could go without.
The only time 3V takes a while to sharpen, is when you re-profile, and I suspect that is the case with most steels with that wear resistance, or more resistant. Everyone is different though, some might have different views on ease of sharpening.
3V is an amazing steel! Oh and
ShannonSteelLabs
makes good quality knives. I have a few of his. They have held up to lots of hard use.
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ShannonSteelLabs
Gold Member
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So about sharpening 3V. I find touching up after a long day or two of using the blade is extremely easy. As long as you touch the edge up regularly after use. The only part that is difficult is re-profiling the edge. I re-profile my edges only once every 1-3 years depending on how much I use that blade, and if I can keep the edge from getting too thick. But up until then, really all I use for touch ups is a medium grit ceramic and a strop, and on a very rare occasion, a fine grit diamond, which I really could go without.
The only time 3V takes a while to sharpen, is when you re-profile, and I suspect that is the case with most steels with that wear resistance, or more resistant. Everyone is different though, some might have different views on ease of sharpening.
3V is an amazing steel! Oh and
ATJ999
is not very nice to his knives. HahaHes put everything I have made him to some serious use.
Hes 100% right about the touching up part. Keep the edges touched up and you wont have a problem. Reprofiling is difficult due to the wear resistance, as well as letting it get super dull.
Thank you for the kind words!Don’t forget about Cruwear and 52100, because they’re the best!
Kidding mostly... All of the steels recommended so far look to be great choices and you won’t go wrong with them. If I were you, I would get with
Good luck and trust your instincts as they’re usually correct.