cncmaster43

[craytab]

I was just curious, not being provocative. I think the rule is way less than clear. You spend a lot of time in GBU and I thought you might have an opinion on it. If not, no problem.

I do have an opinion. By the letter it looks like feedback should not be left. But that doesn't seem right. I don't think there is a clear answer here to be interpreted by members. My opinions is to ask a mod and do what they advise. They would likely talk it over and come to a consensus, might even include spark.

The OP did do the right thing so far: start a thread here! Seasoned BF members know to look here when considering who to deal with rather than just relying on itrader which is but one indicator as to who might be a concern.

 

[knarfeng]

Yup. Ask a mod. No reason to let this be confusing.

The feedback system on BF's might not be perfect but it's far from being worthless.

You had a completed transaction so why would you feel that if you left him feedback it would have been retaliatory ? You would have been well within your rights to have left feedback if you had chosen to do so. If cncmaster43 in turn would have left you negative feedback after you did so, that would have been retaliatory and he would have received an infraction for it.

Obviously another option would have been to start a thread in GBU as Charles713 did.

An Exchange mod has already spoken. Folks were just to busy arguing the point to notice.

 

[craytab]

An Exchange mod has already spoken. Folks were just to busy arguing the point to notice.

Okay, so feedback is still warranted even though the transaction will be undone? No one will be out any money or any item (the buyer will possibly be out an item but only because of his poor execution of the transaction). This is the point of confusion that I see, not only in the rule but also in the mod response you have quoted.

 

[wtlj]

The feedback system on BF's might not be perfect but it's far from being worthless.

You had a completed transaction so why would you feel that if you left him feedback it would have been retaliatory ? You would have been well within your rights to have left feedback if you had chosen to do so. If cncmaster43 in turn would have left you negative feedback after you did so, that would have been retaliatory and he would have received an infraction for it.

Obviously another option would have been to start a thread in GBU as Charles713 did.

You've misunderstood my post. Please read it again. I very clearly stated:
"Yet my fear of him leaving retaliatory feedback is sadly worth more to me than warning others."


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[Peter Hartwig]

An Exchange mod has already spoken. Folks were just to busy arguing the point to notice.

That was in reference to wtlj's transaction not the Op's. wtlj's was clearly completed, the OP may get a refund through PP, so it may not be a completed transaction- that is the one in ? . It may not be a completed transaction, but only due to PP stepping in not the seller making it right. Thus many(or at least me) would ? the seller retaining a perfect rating(presuming he has one-haven't checked) in this case.

 

[Boru13]

If the OP gets a refund through PayPal, then there is not a completed transaction... no feedback should be left.

Feedback should only be left on completed transactions.

Anything other than that, start a thread in the GBU as the OP has done.

 

[craytab]

If the OP gets a refund through PayPal, then there is not a completed transaction... no feedback should be left.

Feedback should only be left on completed transactions.

Anything other than that, start a thread in the GBU as the OP has done.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[HappyDaddy]

If the OP gets a refund through PayPal, then there is not a completed transaction... no feedback should be left.

Feedback should only be left on completed transactions.

Anything other than that, start a thread in the GBU as the OP has done.

Is there not a glaring flaw in a feedback system wherein it would be improper for a buyer, who doesn't get his knife, doesn't get a refund from the seller, and has to resort to PP to be reimbursed, to leave negative feedback for the seller? To me, this is a perfect example of why the current feedback system is, literally, worse than useless. It is greatly biased in favor of only positive feedback being left. Checking GBU can certainly reveal potential problems that feedback scores may not, but the feedback system shouldn't so easily give a false impression of a member's trustworthiness. Just one man's opinion.

 

[Boru13]

You've misunderstood my post. Please read it again. I very clearly stated:
"Yet my fear of him leaving retaliatory feedback is sadly worth more to me than warning others."


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I did read your post, very clearly.

You had a completed transaction with cncmaster43, you weren't happy with the ship time or the packaging yet you chose not to leave feedback or start a thread in the GBU about.

What am I misunderstanding ?

 

[Boru13]

I bought three knives from Cncmaster43 a few weeks back. He shipped three fixed blade knives in an ENVELOPE. I opened the mailbox to find the envelope torn apart with three knives laying on top of it. Definitely do not deal with this guy.

In my opinion this is exactly the kind of information that should have been brought to everyone's attention in this sub-forum when it happened. If people do not call out other people on their bad behavior or poor practices when such things occur, then nothing will ever change. In fact, had this information been made public before Cncmaster43's current shenanigans, he might still be sitting on a few knives unable to sell them and the OP might never have been put in a position where he has to deal with this bologna.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[wroughndt]

In my opinion this is exactly the kind of information that should have been brought to everyone's attention in this sub-forum when it happened. If people do not call out other people on their bad behavior or poor practices when such things occur, then nothing will ever change. In fact, had this information been made public before Cncmaster43's current shenanigans, he might still be sitting on a few knives unable to sell them and the OP might never have been put in a position where he has to deal with this bologna.

At the time I was miffed but I still got what I paid for so I didn't consider starting a thread. In the future I may be a bit more forward about addressing this sort of thing.

 

[wtlj]

I did read your post, very clearly.

You had a completed transaction with cncmaster43, you weren't happy with the ship time or the packaging yet you chose not to leave feedback or start a thread in the GBU about.

What am I misunderstanding ?

Your still not getting it. This is what you said:

"You had a completed transaction so why would you feel that if you left him feedback it would have been retaliatory ?"

This is what I'm trying to tell you:

It wouldn't have been retaliatory on my part leaving him negative feedback....BUT he would retaliate after my initial feedback was left for him.

THIS is what's wrong with the BF feedback system. I have no interest in warning others of possible threats if it's going to take me multiple posts to notify moderators and sparks to get the retaliatory feedback removed. I'm sorry for being selfish but I simply don't have time for that.


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[craytab]

Is there not a glaring flaw in a feedback system wherein it would be improper for a buyer, who doesn't get his knife, doesn't get a refund from the seller, and has to resort to PP to be reimbursed, to leave negative feedback for the seller? To me, this is a perfect example of why the current feedback system is, literally, worse than useless. It is greatly biased in favor of only positive feedback being left. Checking GBU can certainly reveal potential problems that feedback scores may not, but the feedback system shouldn't so easily give a false impression of a member's trustworthiness. Just one man's opinion.

Ugh. How often do we have to go through this. The itrader feedback is but one facet in figuring out who to deal with. If people can't be bothered to look past a number then they get what the deserve. The system isn't perfect. No system will be. In this case the OP did exactly everything correct. The seller appears to be best put on a do not do business with list. Arguing about the system doesn't belong here IMO.

 

[1 ADAM12]

Ah now, lord have mercy....:grumpy:

 

[HappyDaddy]

Ugh. How often do we have to go through this. The itrader feedback is but one facet in figuring out who to deal with. If people can't be bothered to look past a number then they get what the deserve. The system isn't perfect. No system will be. In this case the OP did exactly everything correct. The seller appears to be best put on a do not do business with list. Arguing about the system doesn't belong here IMO.

I don't see anyone arguing about anything. The OP raised the feedback question himself. I merely suggested that the situation in which the OP finds himself ought to be one that permits negative feedback, and that the fact that it apparently isn't is a big ol' flaw in the system. No arguing going on here.

 

[wtlj]

I don't see anyone arguing about anything. The OP raised the feedback question himself. I merely suggested that the situation in which the OP finds himself ought to be one that permits negative feedback, and that the fact that it apparently isn't is a big ol' flaw in the system. No arguing going on here.

I agree with you...
Don't say I didn't warn you though. [emoji6]


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[Boru13]

Your still not getting it. This is what you said:

"You had a completed transaction so why would you feel that if you left him feedback it would have been retaliatory ?"

This is what I'm trying to tell you:

It wouldn't have been retaliatory on my part leaving him negative feedback....BUT he would retaliate after my initial feedback was left for him.

THIS is what's wrong with the BF feedback system. I have no interest in warning others of possible threats if it's going to take me multiple posts to notify moderators and sparks to get the retaliatory feedback removed. I'm sorry for being selfish but I simply don't have time for that.


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No I'm getting it and as I said earlier, if cncmaster43 would have left you retaliatory feedback that would have been removed and he would have received a 30 point infraction for it.

Again as I said earlier, the feedback system isn't perfect but there are measures in place to help forum members avoid these kind of situations... it's up to you whether you use them or not.

If you would like to continue this conversation perhaps you should PM me, I'd prefer not to derail the OP's thread.

 

[craytab]

I don't see anyone arguing about anything. The OP raised the feedback question himself. I merely suggested that the situation in which the OP finds himself ought to be one that permits negative feedback, and that the fact that it apparently isn't is a big ol' flaw in the system. No arguing going on here.

Well then it would seem your issue is resolved

I agree with you...
Don't say I didn't warn you though. [emoji6]

Thanks for personally insulting me once again. Just in case others don't know, you are a net to me guy. So when you attack someone else's character you should probably consider how you act first. You got on my list for your net junk a while ago. You edit your posts nicely. Hopefully others see through this stuff, though I doubt many will and some will defend you. Whatever. Net away!

:thumbup:

 

[wtlj]

Well then it would seem your issue is resolved



Just in case others don't know, you are a net to me guy. So when you attack someone else's character you should probably consider how you act first. You got on my list for your net junk a while ago. You edit your posts nicely. Hopefully others see through this stuff, though I doubt many will and some will defend you. Whatever.

:thumbup:

They all know already...I've been doing it for years and I'll be doing it for years to come. It works for all sorts of payment from PayPal to money order. Saves me time adding up fees and replying to "how much for a personal check question.
Nice try though tough guy. Got anything else?


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[Lone_Wolfe]

They all know already...I've been doing it for years and I'll be doing it for years to come. It works for all sorts of payment from PayPal to money order. Saves me time adding up fees and replying to "how much for a personal check question.
Nice try though tough guy. Got anything else?

Thought he had you on his ignore list.