cold steel all sizzle and no steak?

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cziv said:
NONSENSE?

It sounds like you are parroting or agreeing with ibute21, except for the portion that I underlined. :confused:
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no ibute21's whole argument is that most people dont care what kind of steel it is and my argument is that most people do!

that is what i was talking about better steel does sell more. all i want is for cold steel to make an option to have a 154cm steel blade not just aus 8 because yes i like aus 8 but i love 154cm much more and would pay double what i did for the aus 8 version it would be smart of cold steel to use diff steels more money and i think they would sell more of the 154cm version then the aus 8 version, am i wrong??? i dont think so
 
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my only real problem with cold steel is they say they are the best yet they use not the best steel. if you want to be the best or you say you are the best! you might want to back it up in your product that is all i am sayin.

i like cold steel knives and like aus 8

but i think they could seriously be the best only if they used better steel then aus 8

i was saying nonesense to ibute21 saying that people dont care about what type of steel they get.
 
But, even if they used s30v on the new voyager line and the price went to the $100 and above mark; all the whiners here would STILL b!tch that they are after all, just Cold Steel knives and not worth the money.
 
chad2 said:
i would pay 150$ for a recon 1 in 154cm steel and i paid 56$ for the aus 8 version :)
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OK, that's one. But Cold Steel has to sell a lot of knives. It knows it's not an upper-tier maker like Benchmade or Spyderco. It doesn't have the product line that a Kershaw has. It knows it's market niche, and it's pool of potential customers. And it has to hit a certain price point to sell enough knives to make an acceptable profit. And I'd bet most of its revenues and profits come from its $30-80 knives and not the XXLLLXX Espadas and San Mai scimitars. And I also bet if they thought they could make a decent profit on a 154CM Recon1, they'd do it. But if you want a limited edition "sprint run", you better have the reputation to make it sell out for a premium price.
 
With regards to the steel... I think there's a lot of evidence to suggest that the heat treat is far more important than the type of steel. I have seen 154CM done very poorly. I have seen AUS8 done poorly. I have seen both of them done well as well. I'll take a good AUS8 over a poorly done 154CM any day. At the end of the day, what matters is how well it cuts, and how well it keeps on cutting.

Cold Steel does a great job with their AUS8. They have, in my considered opinion, some of the best AUS8 knives on the market. In contrast, I have said several times that Benchmade's 154CM leaves a lot to be desired, and Benchmade doesn't usually get nearly as much hatred as Cold Steel. Heck, I'd probably call myself a Benchmade fanboy. Personally, I think it's probably worth getting off the "type of steel" high horse. No matter what kind of steel it is, if it's done well, it's going to be a good knife. If not, it won't. Why look farther than that? All the hype over the newest super steel strikes me as little better than blind fad following, and loses sight of what the purpose of a knife is in the first place. Cold Steel makes knives that perform, and many of their products are at a good price point. I'd rather buy Spyderco or Benchmade, or HTM, or CRK any day, but that's more because I prefer the designs, and most of Cold Steel's designs leave me, well, cold.
 
I was a fan of cold steel, even through their design knockoffs, the advertising and anything else I may have forgotten. Then one day Lynn Thompson decided to personally attack Mick Strider. Whether or not you are a fan of Mick, his company and/or his work, there is NO reason you should find this acceptable. IIRC, it caused quite a stir on the forums and disappeared rather quickly. Interestingly, it came out at the same time as a Strider fixed blade knockoff was released... hmmm. Since then, I have gotten rid of all my CS knives (save one, received as a gift) and bought more Striders.
 
scouter27 said:
I was a fan of cold steel, even through their design knockoffs, the advertising and anything else I may have forgotten. Then one day Lynn Thompson decided to personally attack Mick Strider. Whether or not you are a fan of Mick, his company and/or his work, there is NO reason you should find this acceptable. IIRC, it caused quite a stir on the forums and disappeared rather quickly. Interestingly, it came out at the same time as a Strider fixed blade knockoff was released... hmmm. Since then, I have gotten rid of all my CS knives (save one, received as a gift) and bought more Striders.
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Hmmm, marketing guy=bad, felon=good?
I like my Striders too, but that's some weird logic.
 
lol..... Cold steel and Strider get zero love on this forum.
i love my striders as i am a personal experience guy and i gave them a try. what was the worst that could happen? i get one hate it and sell it for the same price as they have an excellent ability to hold their value even well used. I got my first one in the form of a SMF DGG 3v folder and it was and still is just amazing to me. they are meant to be used and buddy do they look and feel like it, im addicted :D i dont care what someone did in the past, they apologized thats all i care about.

as for cold steel, working at a club you get to see alot of funny/cool things confiscated at the front door... one of which was a cold steel espada large or xl i dont know but it was BIG! upon fondling it i came to the conclusion that i would never own a cold steel product unless it was a demko custom. it felt cheap to me, and i dont care how strong the lock if everything else has a cheap feeling to it. i would compare Cold Steel to SOG in the sense that they feel like toys.

EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinions and i will not judge anyone for doing so.
 
Gadfly22 said:
OK, that's one. But Cold Steel has to sell a lot of knives. It knows it's not an upper-tier maker like Benchmade or Spyderco. It doesn't have the product line that a Kershaw has. It knows it's market niche, and it's pool of potential customers. And it has to hit a certain price point to sell enough knives to make an acceptable profit. And I'd bet most of its revenues and profits come from its $30-80 knives and not the XXLLLXX Espadas and San Mai scimitars. And I also bet if they thought they could make a decent profit on a 154CM Recon1, they'd do it. But if you want a limited edition "sprint run", you better have the reputation to make it sell out for a premium price.
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You are contradicting yourself. You can't be in a niche market but survive only (or mostly) on mass sales. It's the other way around. Very few people (relatively speaking) buy knives that cost over a certain price point. Personally I don't know ANYONE (literally true) who owns a folder of any brand, other than people I met thru this out of control hobby of mine. My brother-in-law owns a clone of a Buck that itself costs less than $30. I know other people that have cheap copies of SAK's that cost $25.
Cold Steel is a very expensive brand over here, but Benchmade is like a Rolex. The plainest Spyderco Military costs the equivalent of over $300 here.
That price differential exists in the US as well, and people will buy accordingly. It's only confused people like us who think they have good reason to pay $50-$100 more for the same knife with a steel that's only better if you carefully look for the differences.
Don't get me wrong, I'm as much a steel snob as the next guy. But yesterday I cut, sliced and scraped with and thumped on my new $37 Voyager and again I find myself wondering why I'm saving up for a Yuna again? Why are all those $300+ folders sitting in storage, waiting for a turn in my pocket? What are they doing better?

The answer is nothing, of course. We're idiots with a weird hobby. I don't mind, and neither should anyone else. But it's the manufacturers with the expensive folders who are occupying the niche, not the ones who produce affordable practical knives.
 
philwar said:
You are contradicting yourself. You can't be in a niche market but survive only (or mostly) on mass sales. It's the other way around. Very few people (relatively speaking) buy knives that cost over a certain price point. Personally I don't know ANYONE (literally true) who owns a folder of any brand, other than people I met thru this out of control hobby of mine. My brother-in-law owns a clone of a Buck that itself costs less than $30. I know other people that have cheap copies of SAK's that cost $25.
Cold Steel is a very expensive brand over here, but Benchmade is like a Rolex. The plainest Spyderco Military costs the equivalent of over $300 here.
That price differential exists in the US as well, and people will buy accordingly. It's only confused people like us who think they have good reason to pay $50-$100 more for the same knife with a steel that's only better if you carefully look for the differences.
Don't get me wrong, I'm as much a steel snob as the next guy. But yesterday I cut, sliced and scraped with and thumped on my new $37 Voyager and again I find myself wondering why I'm saving up for a Yuna again? Why are all those $300+ folders sitting in storage, waiting for a turn in my pocket? What are they doing better?

The answer is nothing, of course. We're idiots with a weird hobby. I don't mind, and neither should anyone else. But it's the manufacturers with the expensive folders who are occupying the niche, not the ones who produce affordable practical knives.
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OK, let's go with "position in the market" instead of "market niche". And we get to the same place and make the same point. Having made the point a couple of times in this thread that Cold Steel is a volume producer for the large $30-80 knife market -- its primary "niche" -- I didn't think I'd be misunderstood in the way you misunderstood me.
 
Popsickle said:
as for cold steel, working at a club you get to see alot of funny/cool things confiscated at the front door... one of which was a cold steel espada large or xl i dont know but it was BIG! upon fondling it i came to the conclusion that i would never own a cold steel product unless it was a demko custom. it felt cheap to me, and i dont care how strong the lock if everything else has a cheap feeling to it. i would compare Cold Steel to SOG in the sense that they feel like toys.

EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinions and i will not judge anyone for doing so.
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I bought a CS Rajah I during their close-out sale and I'd submit that as a knife, that although not really practical for EDC, is a very high quality knife. They're selling on fleabay - when you can spot one - for close to $300. I paid less than 1/3 for mine so I'd never pay that but what nice folder...YMMV :)
 
Gadfly22 said:
OK, let's go with "position in the market" instead of "market niche". And we get to the same place and make the same point. Having made the point a couple of times in this thread that Cold Steel is a volume producer for the large $30-80 knife market -- its primary "niche" -- I didn't think I'd be misunderstood in the way you misunderstood me.
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I think you misunderstand the word "niche" and now don't want to admit it. I misunderstood you in the same way I would have if you'd used the word 'car' to describe a flying contraption with wings and a jet at the end. :rolleyes:
 
philwar said:
I think you misunderstand the word "niche" and now don't want to admit it. I misunderstood you in the same way I would have if you'd used the word 'car' to describe a flying contraption with wings and a jet at the end. :rolleyes:
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Actually, you confused a concept like "niche marketing" -- i.e., directing your product to a small segment of a larger market -- with a "market niche", which might be either big or small, much like an "ecological niche". The term refers to the relationship within an economic system (again, similar to an ecosystem). Chevrolet occupies a "market niche", which it hopes to be very large. It is not the same "market niche" in which Mercedes operates.

Also, you managed to ignore the rest of my post and so misread a term entirely out of context. Again, I'll point out that we seem to be in agreement that Cold Steel is a mass market maker and knows that its appeal is not to the "market niche" (you can read that as "position in the market" if it helps you) to which Benchmade appeals.
 
philwar said:
I think you misunderstand the word "niche" and now don't want to admit it. I misunderstood you in the same way I would have if you'd used the word 'car' to describe a flying contraption with wings and a jet at the end. :rolleyes:
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Per Webster's website: "d : a specialized market."

Such as $30-80 knives for people that need to cut through meat filled boots.

per wiki: "A niche market is the subset of the market on which a specific product is focusing; therefore the market niche defines the specific product features aimed at satisfying specific market needs, as well as the price range, production quality and the demographics that is intended to impact..."

So the market is knives and the subset is $30-$80 knives for people that need to cut through meat filled boots.

It's pretty clear he was saying that if you operate in the lower end of a market, volume is important. I also don't see how he used the word "niche" incorrectly. A specialized market doesn't have to be small to be specialized.
 
1966c10 said:
Per Webster's website: "d : a specialized market."

Such as $30-80 knives for people that need to cut through meat filled boots.

per wiki: "A niche market is the subset of the market on which a specific product is focusing; therefore the market niche defines the specific product features aimed at satisfying specific market needs, as well as the price range, production quality and the demographics that is intended to impact..."

So the market is knives and the subset is $30-$80 knives for people that need to cut through meat filled boots.

It's pretty clear he was saying that if you operate in the lower end of a market, volume is important. I also don't see how he used the word "niche" incorrectly. A specialized market doesn't have to be small to be specialized.
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I'll point this out to you because it doesn't seem to be all that obvious but you're mistaking Cold Steel's advertizing with what their knives are made for and capable of.
Your argument would prohibit people who don't own dogs from buying cars that are advertized as good dog carriers.

Cold Steel folders are intended and designed for the same market as all Kershaws, all Byrds, many Spyderco's, a few Benchmades and lots of other brands. They have their own style and design (which marketing emphasizes) but they're solid rugged inexpensive folders that come in all sizes. Cold Steel folders are in no way, in no sense of the word 'niche' knives, or knives intended for a niche part of the market.
If I made some video's showing Kershaws and Spyderco's cutting through meat filled boots (which I'm sure they could do), would that change their intended market? Of course not. It might make them appeal to an audience that until then was not interested in them though, just as - apparently - it turns off other people that would otherwise be interested in Cold Steel. That would be their loss, by the way.

A karambit is a niche knife. A 4" clippoint folder is not.
 
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