A.G. Russell doesn't "manufacture" his knives either.
Yet many of them are absolutely top quality.
And have been for 30 plus years!
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Cold Steel (biased?) I think I like them :P
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A.G. Russell doesn't "manufacture" his knives either.
Yet many of them are absolutely top quality.
And have been for 30 plus years!
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Giving another example doest not state how the above is BS, nor does it have anything to do with my statement. In fact it sounds like you agree with the information I posted and are siting another example to justify it.
In a nutshell, what I'm saying is that the quality of company's manufactured product does not depend on whether the company owns its manufacturing facilities.
Plenty of companies that own their own factories manufacture crappy products.
On the other hand, plenty of companies that don't own their own factories turn out top-of-the-line products.
Yves St Laurent, Giorgio Armani, Coach, and countless others - do you think these companies own factories? No, they don't.
But they turn out superior product with their name on it. You can buy a Hermes wristwatch for twenty grand, or a pair of their shoes for two grand.
Not manufactured by Hermes!
Yet it's one of the most respected brands in the world with respect to manufactured goods.
Then you had a company like American Motors which manufactured its own cars, and they were garbage. They justifiably went out of business.
So - point is - just because a company does not own its own factories, i.e. manufacture its own products, does not mean that its products are low quallity.
As I've pointed out, they can be extraordinarily high quality!
Yet you seem to be saying that simply because Cold Steel does not manufacture its own products that their products can't be high quality.
Obviously, the opposite is true.
They can be very high quality.
In this thread, http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=492653, Grohmann notably did not respond to your direct question.
In the other two threads, Eric (Normark) chose to answer, but offered no authority for his conclusion.
Perhaps Grohmann is in a licensing deal with CS.
As I'm sure you know, these kinds of deals happen all the time, all over the world.
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Thanks, Rifon2! Yeah, I realize they didn't answer, but Eric (Normark) does a lot of work with them (makes sheath systems for their knives) and answered on their behalf. I trust Eric's word on this one.
Regards,
3G
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Make no mistake, I could care less what anyone says or thinks about CS. If they break the law then they should pay the price. My thoughts on CS are from many years of using their products. Like I said they have always gave me what I figured I paid for and usually at a preyy good price. Even the first few CS knives I bought are serving very well. I can only offer my expierences with them.
If Eric said it it is true.
When Spyderco used the Emerson Wave on their Endura or Delicia it has a patent number on it. CS does not have a patent number on their version of the wave. When it comes to knife shapes it is not illegal but it is immoral when a company develops something new and inovative and some crook stamps out a bunch with chinese slave labour. But when it is a blatant and obvious patent violation this is theft plain and simple.
When Spyderco used the Emerson Wave on their Endura or Delicia it has a patent number on it. CS does not have a patent number on their version of the wave. When it comes to knife shapes it is not illegal but it is immoral when a company develops something new and inovative and some crook stamps out a bunch with chinese slave labour. But when it is a blatant and obvious patent violation this is theft plain and simple.
averageguy
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"Thanks, Rifon2! Yeah, I realize they didn't answer, but Eric (Normark) does a lot of work with them (makes sheath systems for their knives) and answered on their behalf. I trust Eric's word on this one."
You mean trust his opinion.
Eric does not speak for Grohmann - as pointed out they had plenty of opportunity to respond and chose not to.
If indeed the knife was "stolen" why did Grohmann not press a suit?
Because, it is merely a similar design as are many knives.
Grohmann didn't threaten a suit - settle a suit - win a suit - couldn't.
It's not a copy it's similar design.
As I indicated earlier - NO ONE - to my knowledge has pressed a suit against CS. This means that there are no blatant copies or patent infringement or that an agreement exists between the parties.
CS recreates popular or traditional designs from around the world.
As Kieth pointed out at the end of that thread; "It seems that many designs that have been around for the length of time that the D. H. Russell Canadian Belt Knife has, get copied. Especially if, like the Canadian Belt Knife, the design does an excellent job of what it was intended to do."
I have seen the Canadian Belt Knife in other iterations - it is an old and established design like the Buck 110.
The bottom line is you guys are speaking out of your ***.
As far as the "wave" - who was the first to put a thumb stud on a knife? Get checked.
As far as taking a shot at Strider - it seems he has plenty of shots coming at him - talk about somebody with no character.
You mean trust his opinion.
Eric does not speak for Grohmann - as pointed out they had plenty of opportunity to respond and chose not to.
If indeed the knife was "stolen" why did Grohmann not press a suit?
Because, it is merely a similar design as are many knives.
Grohmann didn't threaten a suit - settle a suit - win a suit - couldn't.
It's not a copy it's similar design.
As I indicated earlier - NO ONE - to my knowledge has pressed a suit against CS. This means that there are no blatant copies or patent infringement or that an agreement exists between the parties.
CS recreates popular or traditional designs from around the world.
As Kieth pointed out at the end of that thread; "It seems that many designs that have been around for the length of time that the D. H. Russell Canadian Belt Knife has, get copied. Especially if, like the Canadian Belt Knife, the design does an excellent job of what it was intended to do."
I have seen the Canadian Belt Knife in other iterations - it is an old and established design like the Buck 110.
The bottom line is you guys are speaking out of your ***.
As far as the "wave" - who was the first to put a thumb stud on a knife? Get checked.
As far as taking a shot at Strider - it seems he has plenty of shots coming at him - talk about somebody with no character.
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I have a few cs blades that I have used for work ,theyre ok knives but I dont agree on paying extra for them so cs can send out countless dvds,I think a better edc for you money is spyderco or bm
mmmotorcycle
Captain Slow
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and Lynn is rubbing his hands in pleasure realising that he got some free publicity again.
All i know is that LT tends to use certain patented features in his knives that seem to be used without prior permission from the designer.
In the one case i am almost certain it was infringement of the patented "reverse edge" blade shape developed by Sal Glesser from Spyderco.
Cold steel used it in it's Black Talon knife.
I am 100 % certain Spyderco did not give permission to LT to copy his design.
The fact that Cold Steel infringes on copyrights is an indicator that "there is a strong possibility" that Cold steel has different ethical perspectives regarding the manufacturing of knives.
This also implies IMHO that the same ethical and moral "values" can slip into a product itself.
I don't blatantly state that the product that CS delivers is made by cutting corners in production, or is unsafe, or with inferiour materials, but you can wonder if the moral vieuws of LT about making a living in the knife industry is always in the best intrest for the customer of his products.
All i know is that LT tends to use certain patented features in his knives that seem to be used without prior permission from the designer.
In the one case i am almost certain it was infringement of the patented "reverse edge" blade shape developed by Sal Glesser from Spyderco.
Cold steel used it in it's Black Talon knife.
I am 100 % certain Spyderco did not give permission to LT to copy his design.
The fact that Cold Steel infringes on copyrights is an indicator that "there is a strong possibility" that Cold steel has different ethical perspectives regarding the manufacturing of knives.
This also implies IMHO that the same ethical and moral "values" can slip into a product itself.
I don't blatantly state that the product that CS delivers is made by cutting corners in production, or is unsafe, or with inferiour materials, but you can wonder if the moral vieuws of LT about making a living in the knife industry is always in the best intrest for the customer of his products.
some of the prices on their products esp. the folders really turn me off.
SOLID PROOF is entertainment and should not be seen as REAL PROOF
sure CS marketing attitude turns me off.
However I like how their products have variety.
The only thing I have from CS is their training knives, I have a bunch.
I don't mind buying some of their products. But I wish they would change certain things about their company.
www.geocities.com/knifebat
SOLID PROOF is entertainment and should not be seen as REAL PROOF
sure CS marketing attitude turns me off.
However I like how their products have variety.
The only thing I have from CS is their training knives, I have a bunch.
I don't mind buying some of their products. But I wish they would change certain things about their company.
www.geocities.com/knifebat
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WOW, I have been reading on this forum but not posting, but this time I will.
I currently own 4 Cold Steel knives, a Carbon V Master Hunter, a Carbon V SRK, an Ultimate Hunter in AUS 8A, and a Voyager medium clip point in VG-1. The Master Hunter and SRK are awesome knives for what they are designed for. The Ultimate Hunter hasn't been blooded yet but I like the design and feel of it, just wish it was also Carbon V but thats life, the Voyager Medium clip point in VG-1 seems to be a pretty good little knife, I carry it every day at work and its light, and seems to keep a pretty good edge, wouldn't mind having the large size. I personally don't like tanto points and really don't like serrations but don't care if everyone else in the world does, I have been known to take a knife I was given and remove the serrations, or re-shape the blade but thats me. I will probably buy at least one more Cold Steel knife, the Pendleton Mini Hunter. One of my friends who also likes knives has one and its just dang cute. I gave him a Carbon V SRK that I purchased off of the internet with the old style cordura sheath, and bought myself a factory second closeout Carbon V SRK with the Secure EX or whatever it is sheath, both of us are are tickled. As for the marketing, I think its entertaining, sort of like professional wrestling, I don't plan to do either but entertaining none the less. My son absolutely loves to watch both Solid Proof and Sword Proof. And remember the purpose of the CD's to get more people to buy CS products and ITS WORKING. Maybe someday I will get lucky enough to find a Carbon V Trailmaster at a decent price, have no purpose for it, but if having a specific purpose for my knives was a factor I wouldn't have very many.
As for the patent infringements I don't think anyone can claim a patent on a blade shape, I'm sure that just about every conceiveable shape has been around for hundreds of years, I don't hear anyone complaining about not paying the Japanese for all the "copies" of the katana blades etc. I think the patent comes into play in the locking mechanisms, and deployment type. And I'm pretty sure that if there was a patent infringement then the original owner assuming they are in business would be filing a claim and asking either for a big payment or better yet a percentage of each sale. But what do I know I still keep a few gas station knives in my boat, you know the ones that sell for 4$ at the checkout counter at most gas stations and carry at different times a Cold Steel, Gerber, Kershaw, Buck, Uncle Henry, Old Timer, Beretta, Kabar, etc. and even a cheap folding utility knife with the replaceable blades which sharpen like a dream.
I currently own 4 Cold Steel knives, a Carbon V Master Hunter, a Carbon V SRK, an Ultimate Hunter in AUS 8A, and a Voyager medium clip point in VG-1. The Master Hunter and SRK are awesome knives for what they are designed for. The Ultimate Hunter hasn't been blooded yet but I like the design and feel of it, just wish it was also Carbon V but thats life, the Voyager Medium clip point in VG-1 seems to be a pretty good little knife, I carry it every day at work and its light, and seems to keep a pretty good edge, wouldn't mind having the large size. I personally don't like tanto points and really don't like serrations but don't care if everyone else in the world does, I have been known to take a knife I was given and remove the serrations, or re-shape the blade but thats me. I will probably buy at least one more Cold Steel knife, the Pendleton Mini Hunter. One of my friends who also likes knives has one and its just dang cute. I gave him a Carbon V SRK that I purchased off of the internet with the old style cordura sheath, and bought myself a factory second closeout Carbon V SRK with the Secure EX or whatever it is sheath, both of us are are tickled. As for the marketing, I think its entertaining, sort of like professional wrestling, I don't plan to do either but entertaining none the less. My son absolutely loves to watch both Solid Proof and Sword Proof. And remember the purpose of the CD's to get more people to buy CS products and ITS WORKING. Maybe someday I will get lucky enough to find a Carbon V Trailmaster at a decent price, have no purpose for it, but if having a specific purpose for my knives was a factor I wouldn't have very many.
As for the patent infringements I don't think anyone can claim a patent on a blade shape, I'm sure that just about every conceiveable shape has been around for hundreds of years, I don't hear anyone complaining about not paying the Japanese for all the "copies" of the katana blades etc. I think the patent comes into play in the locking mechanisms, and deployment type. And I'm pretty sure that if there was a patent infringement then the original owner assuming they are in business would be filing a claim and asking either for a big payment or better yet a percentage of each sale. But what do I know I still keep a few gas station knives in my boat, you know the ones that sell for 4$ at the checkout counter at most gas stations and carry at different times a Cold Steel, Gerber, Kershaw, Buck, Uncle Henry, Old Timer, Beretta, Kabar, etc. and even a cheap folding utility knife with the replaceable blades which sharpen like a dream.
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- Apr 23, 2007
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- 364
OK now we are comparing knives to fashion companies? Great picks in that list btw, because we all know CS is the Armani of the knife world. :jerkit: