Cold Steel Cinquedea

Basp2005 said:
So you are being obtuse, ok, got it. I'm done with you.
Click to expand...

And in what way am I being obtuse? My whole reason for debating this point is that context dictates appropriate weapon selection and that when examining the merits of a weapon its intended context needs to be taken into account. As such, trying to force a comparison of selecting a cinquedea in the context of a duel is just as silly as the implication that rapiers were somehow universally dueling weapons. Horses for courses.
 
Ok, my apologies. One last try. According to your definition no weapon throughout history could be considered a "dueling weapon". Dueling pistols, nope. Flintlock pistols were military arms. I am willing to bet someone was called to battle and the choice to bring his small sword or leave it at home was an easy choice to make. So what does that leave us? A foil? Well that's just for practice, but I'm sure one or two times it was used against another in anger. So there is no such thing as a "dueling weapon", and yet any weapon used in a duel is a dueling weapon. It's semantics, and it's a silly argument at this point.
 
Basp2005 said:
Ok, my apologies. One last try. According to your definition no weapon throughout history could be considered a "dueling weapon". Dueling pistols, nope. Flintlock pistols were military arms. I am willing to bet someone was called to battle and the choice to bring his small sword or leave it at home was an easy choice to make. So what does that leave us? A foil? Well that's just for practice, but I'm sure one or two times it was used against another in anger. So there is no such thing as a "dueling weapon", and yet any weapon used in a duel is a dueling weapon. It's semantics, and it's a silly argument at this point.
Click to expand...

Hmm...either you don't understand what I'm asserting or you're using a straw man argument. Classification of a weapon as a so-called "dueling weapon" requires looking at the individual specimen rather than painting an entire family or class of weapons with a broad brush and calling them all dueling weapons. Dueling pistols are dueling weapons, having been constructed with the explicit intention of being used only for dueling. The fact that that specimen is a flintlock is irrelevant--the design and intent of the weapon is exclusively geared towards the field of honor, and not for any other use. Like many other dueling weapons, they are made matched such that a combatant cannot cry fowl that his opponent had a superior weapon to his own.

duelling-purdey.jpg


As another example, dueling sabres exist, but sabres as a class of sword are not dueling weapons per se--only dueling sabres are, as a subset of the larger category of sabres in general. The korbschläger, for instance, is a sword that is only a dueling weapon, and not used in any other combative context. Their sole purpose is mensur dueling (although, to split definitional hairs, it is more properly ritualistic combat since there is not a defacto winner or loser and the goal is an education of character.)

Adolf_Meyer_-_Korbschl%C3%A4ger.jpg


M%C3%BChlberg_-_Der_Herr_Paukant.jpg
 
In the early 1900's in Germany, a German menseur challenged an American in a bar to a schlager duel. The Yank knew that the challenged party gets to choose the weapons, so he proposed baseballs as the weapon of honor. The German was so disgusted at being outmaneuvered, he left the field....Not that I don't enjoy a good debate, but you guys are actually not, syllogistically speaking, arguing against each other. Rather, you are making points in parallel. Kudos to you both for disagreeing but doing it like gentlemen. In the 21st century, our preferred weapons are words, which would have saved about 30,000 French nobles (damn smallsword), but we have gone a wee bit astray. I would have liked a hilt with more iconic cinqeda flavor from CS, but I laid out more for the the blurple PM2 and I have always liked this particular niche weapon. I will hopefully convince my wife that I need one and my small boys that it is not in fact a toy, though it is like an Oakeshotte Xlll at their size. Now if only CS would answer the call for a decent Kinjal, I would be truly happy.
 
See that banjo, purpose built for the dewl!

[video=youtube_share;myhnAZFR1po]http://youtu.be/myhnAZFR1po[/video]
 
Last edited:
Off topic, but Basp2005, would you mind editing post 68? This isn't W&C, and I'm not a big fan of people who make fun of Down's syndrome kids. This thread got civilized, maybe we try to tidy up?

As far as this blade is concerned, while I'm not a fan at all of Cold Steel and their antics, I'm okay with any company making a product that will push others to step up their game as well, and taken on its own merits, it seems like an alright piece. The idea of style and design coming from fitting in with laws makes so much sense, why not use the loophole to make a much more effective weapon? And why not make it look fancy, sure fits with the time.
 
Basp2005 said:
Austria, Malaysia, and the IDF.
Click to expand...

Austrian military only issues the Glock 17, which is their standard service pistol. Malaysian military issues the 17, 19, and 34. IDF issues the 17 and 19.

Obviously if there are units who can choose their own equipment, it's possible some of them may bring a Glock 26...it's also possible someone in those units could bring a Cold Steel cinquedea, if they wanted. But it's not a standard issue weapon. Even among law enforcement, where it IS a standard issue weapon in many agencies, it's still not carried as a primary weapon, it's carried as a last ditch emergency weapon.
 
DShiflet said:
...it's also possible someone in those units could bring a Cold Steel cinquedea, if they wanted. But it's not a standard issue weapon. Even among law enforcement, where it IS a standard issue weapon in many agencies, it's still not carried as a primary weapon, it's carried as a last ditch emergency weapon.
Click to expand...

Which law enforcement agency has this as standard weapon?
:-O
 
DShiflet said:
Austrian military only issues the Glock 17, which is their standard service pistol. Malaysian military issues the 17, 19, and 34. IDF issues the 17 and 19.

Obviously if there are units who can choose their own equipment, it's possible some of them may bring a Glock 26...it's also possible someone in those units could bring a Cold Steel cinquedea, if they wanted. But it's not a standard issue weapon. Even among law enforcement, where it IS a standard issue weapon in many agencies, it's still not carried as a primary weapon, it's carried as a last ditch emergency weapon.
Click to expand...

http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=338
 
Jens Schuetz said:
Which law enforcement agency has this as standard weapon?
:-O
Click to expand...

Not as a primary gun, but several of them issue it as a backup gun or a deep cover gun. Department of Homeland Security, the FBI, Australian Federal Police, sundry others.

Basp2005, that site lists Malaysia because of the RELA Corps. RELA is a law enforcement agency that in times of war is temporarily absorbed into the Malaysian army as a support branch. It's still a law enforcement agency, not a military agency. And I don't know WHY it lists Austria at all, cause their armed forces do not issue it, they only issue the 17, as the Pistole 80(P80). Although, it appears the Pakistani army DOES use the Glock 26, so there is at least one military that does issue it(which you site DOESN'T list).
 
DShiflet said:
Not as a primary gun, but several of them issue it as a backup gun or a deep cover gun. Department of Homeland Security, the FBI, Australian Federal Police, sundry others.

Basp2005, that site lists Malaysia because of the RELA Corps. RELA is a law enforcement agency that in times of war is temporarily absorbed into the Malaysian army as a support branch. It's still a law enforcement agency, not a military agency. And I don't know WHY it lists Austria at all, cause their armed forces do not issue it, they only issue the 17, as the Pistole 80(P80). Although, it appears the Pakistani army DOES use the Glock 26, so there is at least one military that does issue it(which you site DOESN'T list).
Click to expand...
That's cool information and makes sense. Thank you.

As to my question I was pulling your leg. Well trying at least.
It read at first like the blade would be standard issue. How cool would that be?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top