Cold Steel= flat out liars

Clint Simpson said:
The axis lock was a rip-off from the REKAT lock design for the Sifu knife.

Benchmade bought the rights to the lock when REKAT *after* went under, but they don't use that design. Cold Steel PAYS royalities to BM but the ultra lock was supposed to be different from BM's. My guess is BM bought the rights trying to strifle the competion.

BTW, it is not a rip-off if they pay royalities.
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ya say the axis was derived from the rolling lock?i have seen schematics of both of them, and the axis is nothing at all like the rolling lock, thats a diff design imho, totally diff design. the rolling lock is trash imho FWIW, but look at them and ya will see they are not at all alike.

IIRC BM does own the rolling lock now, but thats not the axis lock.
 
STR said:
Most of the guys with a beef about Cold Steel have trouble swallowing the hype and the owner's personality. In my experience I've never had folders I've worked as hard or beat up as much as Cold Steel knives and I've never once had to send one in for a repair as far as their folders go. I did send in a Warhead fixed blade they never got back to me about which is a big gripe I have with them but thats it.

I still have their products and recognize them for what they are; farily priced beater/user knives that take what you dish out and perform well for the most part. My Voyager and Vaquearo experiences have been nothing less than positive. Other than these folders and a couple of Trail Guides which are nice for gents knives but not of the same quality of the others I have, I have not explored a lot of the newer knives like the Ultra lock, which by the way is not the same as an axis lock. Look it up. It is different in how it works.

The Ultra lock is no more a clone of an axis lock than the nested compression lock is by Spyderco and all three have a different way of securing the blade opened. The Recon lock bar or pin that stops the blade sits lengthwise in the body of the folder and the axis blade bar or stop pin sits cross wise in the body. The springs are different also as well as the release mechanisms internal design. That is enough to make it different. Cold Steel didn't make the patent laws so you can't really blame them. The nested compression lock again uses a ball on a spring that is different than the spring on either of the other two mentioned as is the ball bearing vs a pin or bar stop. Just enough to make it different and that is all that is required to make it unique.

From the pratical standpoint of how ideas help create other ideas CS didn't do a thing wrong or illegal by coming out with the Ultra Lock and neither did Spyderco. It is no different than the way the liner lock led to the frame lock later on, or the lock back to the mid lock or the passenger car to the SUV. That is how it goes with anything new. We have seen it all before and not just in knives.

The main thing to remember when dealing with Cold Steel is that they really don't make anythihg. (execpt videos anyway) they have them made for them and they are just a marketing company. There is also some evidence out there that the steel they use is not consistantly the same in their Carbon V which means it apparently changes from time to time making each knife different. Other than these things I find little fault with the products from them that I have bought. I don't much care for the Lynn Thompson but I don't much care for Mick Strider either but they sell some good stuff that does the job. End rant.
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Probably the most thoughtful and balanced post I have read on the subject.....my thoughts exactly : The hype around "Cold Steel" can be offensive, the owner appears at times to be a horses a** (however he is "good" to our military personal often donating his products); pick and choose among their products carefully and you can get a good working knife at a bargin price.....Voyagers, the Carbon V fixed blades.....many of their "seconds" are outstanding deals on a "beater". All the "this knife is better than that" and "that company worse than this" is just ego talk that rivals in its offensiveness "Cold Steel" hype !

-Regards
 
CS stuff is cheap on the fit and finish but some of their designs DOMINATE in terms of performance.Namely their serrations(I know they suck to resharpen)and their ATC machete.

I am not a "brand name knife whore" but I like good stuff and I make most of my decisions based on what kind of steel,grind and general design the knife has.I like a nice custom or semi-custom folder and I usually carry more than one but the biggest surprise I ever got was getting an XL CS Voyager Tanto from a relative as a gift.

I acted like I was delighted about the "cheapo" knife when it was given to me and to myself I secretly poopooed the Zytel handled knife as being far beneath my level of use and taste.

Was I wrong!! That fully serrated Voyager would outcut inch for inch any of my custom or semi-custom folders (serrated or unserrated) and the Vaquero Grande (I bought later) cut like a damned "Light Saber"!!!

If I needed to get through a ropes,bridles,hides,canvas covers,etc I would leave my Skirmish where it was and grab the Cold Steel.

I remember watching a Paul Vunak video where he had pieces of meat hanging from cords as he did some cutting dills(funny to watch but informative)but the thing that amazed me was even with good blade presentation and technique the cuts were not spectacular.

I shortly thereafter decided to pull out a gigantic brisket and try the same test myself(I now do the same test any time I smoke a brisket if I have friends over).My Benchmade,Chris Reeve and Emerson cuts were just about as weak as Paul Vunak's Gerbers and kitchen knives so then I decided to bring out the bigger knives my Mike Snody and the big Vaquero Grande.

The Snody since it cost me a ton of money and I waited for almost a year to get it went first.It definately outperformed any of the prior knives nearly severing the gigantic brisket horizontally with the grain but not quite cutting all of the way through as it pushed the last 1.5 inch hanging brisket out of the way towards the end of the cut.

The out comes the big CS knife and I figured since it was so big and serrated that it might have enough edge to saw/shear it's way pretty deep into the meat so I gave it a try.

Effortless cut!!!Completely slicing the damned thing in half!!I decided that the brisket was no longer going to be smoked as a whole so I could continue my little experiment and cut it up to go in the crockpot.I tried a diagonal cut against the grain of the meat and through the gristle which I thought would be the end of any cut without doing some "sawing" and swoosh like Tameshi Giri with a samurai sword!

That knife sliced diagonally,across the grain through partially frozen brisket almost 13 inches long and 2.5-4.25 inches thick!!!

That knife basically showed me that you don't always get what you pay for and yes if needed you could butcher a whole steer with a pocket knife as long as it was a fully serrated Cold Steel Vaquero Grande.

The downside is that once you put the knife to really heavy use it will never again perform quite the way it did the day it was new because the teeth on the serrations will break off and the steel is kind of brittle and will chip along the scallops leaving the edge all geeked up but will soon be serviceable again after an hour alone with a ceramic rod.

They do have some weakness though. I was carrying my Vaquero in the plier pocket of my carpenter's pants while working and I slipped falling right on the knife and the cheapo plastic handle cracked(none of my fancy knives would have been phased by the same fall)but pound for pound,inch for inch it's worth it for me to buy them 3 at a time(wholesale) and always have a virgin Voyager or Vaquero in my pocket should the need arise.

I just wish they would make a nicer version of the same design with a serious frame lock and a heat treat that wouldn't chip so badly under hard use.That would completely obsolete every other large folder I own.


Next on my list is my custom ground,custom handled ATC(all terrain chopper) it has a larger Micarta handle,parkerized blade and a Moran style edge grind.This knife has been my standard camp and field knife for more than a decade.It has split kindling,dug fire pits and "poop holes" and butchered animals several times per year since I bought it new,it has never failed to impress me with it's performance.I have a Busse and a Griffin that come close due to their quality of steel and superior edge retention and an HI that by shear mass and geometry alone can equal it's wood chopping abilty but can't touch it in the slicing and handling departments.

I have lot's of other knives that are made of slightly better steel or far better finished but they have yet to make anything that will suit my needs and performance requirements like these two "entry level" knives from Cold Steel.

Yes Thompson is a blowhard and yes they hype a bunch of 440C and 1095 mass produced junk knives as the greatest thing since flint napping but they can and occasionally and do make a superior knife that is cheap enough for anyone who might need a serious tool to afford.

As long as the prices of really good knives that only a bunch of overpaid,armchair commando "Gear Whores" can afford to put on their Visa Gold Cards remain as high as a week's wages for for a Soldier,Marine or Ranch Hand, Cold Steel will stay in business and lot's of people will use them in places that other companies only fantasize about ;)

I know I couldn't afford nice knives and gear back when I actually needed them and now that I am an "old man" who will hopefully never again have to bet my life on this kind of stuff I have a house full of fancy knives,guns and gear.

It's a damned shame and some of these other companies ought to take that into consideration especially since we are in a damned war right now.Cold Steel steps up to the plate with "no frills" versions of their best knives for our warrior to use and gives them a discount to boot.

I don't have a problem with Cold Steel
 
sopmodm4 said:
CS stuff is cheap on the fit and finish but some of their designs DOMINATE in terms of performance.Namely their serrations(I know they suck to resharpen)and their ATC machete.

I am not a "brand name knife whore" but I like good stuff and I make most of my decisions based on what kind of steel,grind and general design the knife has.I like a nice custom or semi-custom folder and I usually carry more than one but the biggest surprise I ever got was getting an XL CS Voyager Tanto from a relative as a gift.

I acted like I was delighted about the "cheapo" knife when it was given to me and to myself I secretly poopooed the Zytel handled knife as being far beneath my level of use and taste.

Was I wrong!! That fully serrated Voyager would outcut inch for inch any of my custom or semi-custom folders (serrated or unserrated) and the Vaquero Grande (I bought later) cut like a damned "Light Saber"!!!

If I needed to get through a ropes,bridles,hides,canvas covers,etc I would leave my Skirmish where it was and grab the Cold Steel.

I remember watching a Paul Vunak video where he had pieces of meat hanging from cords as he did some cutting dills(funny to watch but informative)but the thing that amazed me was even with good blade presentation and technique the cuts were not spectacular.

I shortly thereafter decided to pull out a gigantic brisket and try the same test myself(I now do the same test any time I smoke a brisket if I have friends over).My Benchmade,Chris Reeve and Emerson cuts were just about as weak as Paul Vunak's Gerbers and kitchen knives so then I decided to bring out the bigger knives my Mike Snody and the big Vaquero Grande.

The Snody since it cost me a ton of money and I waited for almost a year to get it went first.It definately outperformed any of the prior knives nearly severing the gigantic brisket horizontally with the grain but not quite cutting all of the way through as it pushed the last 1.5 inch hanging brisket out of the way towards the end of the cut.

The out comes the big CS knife and I figured since it was so big and serrated that it might have enough edge to saw/shear it's way pretty deep into the meat so I gave it a try.

Effortless cut!!!Completely slicing the damned thing in half!!I decided that the brisket was no longer going to be smoked as a whole so I could continue my little experiment and cut it up to go in the crockpot.I tried a diagonal cut against the grain of the meat and through the gristle which I thought would be the end of any cut without doing some "sawing" and swoosh like Tameshi Giri with a samurai sword!

That knife sliced diagonally,across the grain through partially frozen brisket almost 13 inches long and 2.5-4.25 inches thick!!!

That knife basically showed me that you don't always get what you pay for and yes if needed you could butcher a whole steer with a pocket knife as long as it was a fully serrated Cold Steel Vaquero Grande.

The downside is that once you put the knife to really heavy use it will never again perform quite the way it did the day it was new because the teeth on the serrations will break off and the steel is kind of brittle and will chip along the scallops leaving the edge all geeked up but will soon be serviceable again after an hour alone with a ceramic rod.

They do have some weakness though. I was carrying my Vaquero in the plier pocket of my carpenter's pants while working and I slipped falling right on the knife and the cheapo plastic handle cracked(none of my fancy knives would have been phased by the same fall)but pound for pound,inch for inch it's worth it for me to buy them 3 at a time(wholesale) and always have a virgin Voyager or Vaquero in my pocket should the need arise.

I just wish they would make a nicer version of the same design with a serious frame lock and a heat treat that wouldn't chip so badly under hard use.That would completely obsolete every other large folder I own.


Next on my list is my custom ground,custom handled ATC(all terrain chopper) it has a larger Micarta handle,parkerized blade and a Moran style edge grind.This knife has been my standard camp and field knife for more than a decade.It has split kindling,dug fire pits and "poop holes" and butchered animals several times per year since I bought it new,it has never failed to impress me with it's performance.I have a Busse and a Griffin that come close due to their quality of steel and superior edge retention and an HI that by shear mass and geometry alone can equal it's wood chopping abilty but can't touch it in the slicing and handling departments.

I have lot's of other knives that are made of slightly better steel or far better finished but they have yet to make anything that will suit my needs and performance requirements like these two "entry level" knives from Cold Steel.

Yes Thompson is a blowhard and yes they hype a bunch of 440C and 1095 mass produced junk knives as the greatest thing since flint napping but they can and occasionally and do make a superior knife that is cheap enough for anyone who might need a serious tool to afford.

As long as the prices of really good knives that only a bunch of overpaid,armchair commando "Gear Whores" can afford to put on their Visa Gold Cards remain as high as a week's wages for for a Soldier,Marine or Ranch Hand, Cold Steel will stay in business and lot's of people will use them in places that other companies only fantasize about ;)

I know I couldn't afford nice knives and gear back when I actually needed them and now that I am an "old man" who will hopefully never again have to bet my life on this kind of stuff I have a house full of fancy knives,guns and gear.

It's a damned shame and some of these other companies ought to take that into consideration especially since we are in a damned war right now.Cold Steel steps up to the plate with "no frills" versions of their best knives for our warrior to use and gives them a discount to boot.

I don't have a problem with Cold Steel
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I think that's all pretty much dead on. Well said.
 
There are two problems with Cold Steel Knives.
1.) They are overpriced. Remember Cold Steel does not make any knives, they are all out scourced. Early on the knives came from good makers in Seki Japan and these are the same makers Benchmade and Spyderco uses. But recently they have started getting most of their knives from Tiawan. And you can get knives from the same Tiawan maker under the brand names of Timberline, Vtech, Fred Carter, Harley Davidson, Ford, as well as Benchmade, Byrd, and Buck.
2.) Their "higher quality" knives with "San Mai" steel can be purchased from the actual maker Mcusta at lower prices with a better git and finish. San Mai steel is a core of VG-10 sandwiched between 420HC steel. It was patented by Mcusta of Japan in the 1980's. It is a three layered steel process that was pioneered by Sweedish steel makers in the 1950's and 1960's but not comercially viable for knife making untill the 1980's.
So to sum it up Cold Steel is O.K. as long as you understand these two facts.
I have a Japan made Recon I that I have carried off and on for eight years, it is a great knife. But it cost too much.
 
4 Ranges said:
I think another reason for the hate is that some of the most rabid CS haters are rabid fans of other knife companies who want those companies to have the kind of ubiquitousness that CS has. Notice that most CS haters are also huge Strider, Busse, and Swamp Rat fans.

I'm a fan of Busse and Swamp Rat, as they make tough knives and have a warranty to back it up. But that doesn't mean I'm an EXCLUSIVE fan of these companies, as I'd be short-changing myself by doing so.

It's a capitalist country. Pick and choose what you like.
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Please tell me when was the last time someone from Busse, Strider or Swamp Rat pitched in for a PI to look up dirt on their competition and smear it all over the internet in an attempt to bring them down.
 
I don't have any Busse, Strider, nor Swam Rat knives, but I bought last year a CS SRK with bad heat threatening. (It's soft, like a crap chinese 420.) Now it's only an overpriced paperweight, not a knife. :( It was a bad experience, for a lifetime.
 
The older Cold Steel knives, late 80's early 90's, were good. I use to own a SRK that was a great knife. I gave that one to a friend and then went to buy another one. For a knife that was supposedly the same, it performed no where near as well. Later when I found out that Cold Steel Carbon V was no longer the same Carbon V it made sense why.

I still own a original Cold Steel Recon Tanto (not the kraton gripped 7" model) and one of their 1st Khukri's. The Khukri has been beat to hell & back and is still going strong. I think their Voyager lockbacks are decent knives for the money.

I do not think their high end knives are worth the cash they are asking. I also am not fond of some of their unethical buisness practices. Don't know Lynn Thompson personally nor does he affect my day to day life so I don't care about the kind of person he may be.

I prefer Spyderco & Benchmade folders and I prefer Falkniven Fixed Blades. Still have my Khukri but will be ordering a HI Khukri in the future.
 
I've owned several Cold Steel folders, and have been quite happy with them. The level of quality on my Voyagers and Spyderco Endura is about the same..... But, as good as they are, Cold Steel DOES over-hype their products; usually to a ridiculous level. Also, if you try to duplicate the tests done in the Cold Steel "More Proof" DVD, you automatically void your knife's warranty.
 
Cold Steel has some products that are OK, IMO. It's just that overall they don't seem nearly as committed to offering consistently good products and value as they do to marketing and making exaggerated claims.
 
They make some great knives. I have had many SRK, master hunter, trailmaster, kobun and voyager clip.

I love carbon V. I have used CV for over 10 years in alll types of situations. It is sharp, strong and easy to sharpen. I believe it is an ideal steel.


The lastest CS stuff sucks. Lets face it Cold steel and Spyderco came in to the production knife world, REVITALIZED IT and laid the foundation for what it is today. But due to the huge ego of lynne thompson, CS is faultering. I don't think he is keeping up with the competition.

By reading his very opinionated ideas on the knife world, he seems to think that he is an absolute genius who knows everthing there is to know about knives and knife training. When you put yourself that high you are bound to fail.
 
On a positive note, I will say that I feel totally confident going into any situation anywhere in the world where a knife would be useful with a traditional Carbon V Cold Steel FB.
 
I think they photoshop their images almost to the point where they display only drawings. It seems fishy and misleading to me...
 
I have about six CS knives now and I like them all. But you have to shop around for a good price to make it worth buying in my opinion. And someone wrote about the rust problem. They can rust but they are a carbon steel and all of my carbon steel knives would rust the same. For the right price they are a great company. And for a good utility knife the SRK is great.
 
That's what I'd like to see, Cold Steel rocks (you know, the kind you throw). I mean, they're selling sticks (walking sticks, staffs, canes, and even a baseball bat) and pieces of cloth (sarongs), what about a Tactical Rock? Nothing beats a rock for an "on the move tactical game plan", and Lynn wouldn't have to get his hands all messy when he tests his Tactical Rock against an enormous rumproast in the next "hype-o-rama" DVD in the series, Rock Solid Proof.

Think about it, LT and crew could make a fortune selling the Tactical Rock! It'd be a big hit in tactical riots. Unlike their knives, the Tactical Rock wouldn't rust, and could be covered under warranty for an acceptable period of time. Cold Steel could even "borrow" Spyderco's "USA EARTH" stamp, place it on the Tactical Rock, and be telling the truth about the origin of the product! And for once the words "Cold Steel Rocks" could be used together in a sentence.:D

Best wishes,
3G
 
3Guardsmen said:
That's what I'd like to see, Cold Steel rocks (you know, the kind you throw). I mean, they're selling sticks (walking sticks, staffs, canes, and even a baseball bat) and pieces of cloth (sarongs), what about a Tactical Rock?
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I like the fact that Cold Steel sells other items. The bat you're refering to is a thick walking stick. Still, I agree that the company is pushing it; especially with regards to the sarong..... I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the company introduced a line of tactical, pocket-flashlights; with LED or Xenon bulbs. Then again, maybe I just gave Mr. Thompson a great idea! ;)

If you start to see Cold Steel tactical flaslights; you know who to blame!:D
 
If CS can come up with a sarong, I'm waiting for their next product--the tactical necktie! :D

I hope it comes in colors and patterns I like.
 
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