Cold Steel tests the Sebenza against their Cold Steel Code 4

[Ajack60]

I am somewhat of a CS fanboi. I have no trouble admitting that. And the CRK Sebenza is the only high-end folder I ever sold, I was so unimpressed with it. So am totally biased with regards to this test and its outcome.

But I would love to hear from anyone a proposal for an objective test and comparison between these two knives. You can even disregard the fact that the Sebenza is about 3x the price.
I say the Code 4 is for all practical intents as good a knife as the Sebenza, and in my very biased view, a better one. So contrary to coming up with all these equally biased objections to the test, name me a single aspect in which the Sebenza is actually better. And don't give me the tolerances, the smoothness, etc, because those are all a lot more irrelevant than the strength and toughness of the Tri-Ad lock.

There is a reason Demko didn't want to do this test. Because there is no other folder on the market the owners of which are so irrationally, neurotically attached to. There is simply no way to break the bad news gently: the Sebenza is a horribly overpriced, overhyped folder that is easily outperformed by a knife 1/3rd the price. The emperor is wearing no clothes.
Now watch the bloodpressures rise and the heart attacks commence.

Then, why would you want to make a Troll Post????

 

[stabman]

name me a single aspect in which the Sebenza is actually better.

Titanium.
The Code 4 suffers from a totally lame lack of titanium.
It's made with aluminum...ewwwwwww. :thumbdn:

So, when I buy a knife, and am looking for the only metal worthy of the gods themselves, I sure won't be buying a boring, lame Code 4, made with a metal barely adequate for lowly plebians.

Titanium: the bacon of the knife world.
Aluminum...I guess it's okay for beer cans.

 

[Vaporstang]

If you watch some of their other testing on frame locks you'll see that the Sebenza did't stand a chance, the Tri-Ad is tried and tested in that weight holding test.

Thanks for the clarification and I'll accept that. Still, as an engineer involved with a lot of testing and validation work, including comparison testing, that was not a good set-up.

 

[Skimo]

Ah, just better to accept that for rugged/stupid use CS has it.
Same arguments are had between Glock and Sig etc.

I won't buy a Sig again, but I'll buy a Glock.

 

[stabman]

Ah, just better to accept that for rugged/stupid use CS has it.

I use my Umnumzaan and Cold Steel knives for rugged/stupid use.

 

[dubya3]

I think it's a good they do their testing, it's criteria that CS expect their products to pass so they test it against competitors products to see where they sit, there's nothing wrong with that and I think all companies should be doing it and striving to improve their products.

People think it's a stupid test because THEY would not attempt them in real life situations. I've only been in this world for 40 years but I have seen more stupid than I care to recall...people spine whacking folders to crack bones when dissecting animals, batoning folders to make kindling etc. People can be stupid and think what their doing is perfectly normal.

Cold Steel have decided to cater to stupid and I think it's a great idea, it's a large part of the market. Otherwise what's the point of having seat belts or airbags or safety's on guns? The more a product is prepared for stupid the better, with shows like Jackass airing, stupid is on the rise.

I think the only questionable part about the whole test for me and the bit that's probably annoying people here is that they do their R&D publicly. Will it make me sell my half doz. CRK's, no, does it give CRK food for thought, maybe?

No, people think it's a stupid test because 99% of people won't put pressure like that on the spine of their folders, and most won't even do that with a fixed blade. People that spine whack and otherwise try to destroy their folders are NOT "a large part of the market", at least not in my group of friends/acquaintance's. Maybe it's a regional thing

 

[Skimo]

I use my Umnumzaan and Cold Steel knives for rugged/stupid use.

I just use BM and SPCO, but with the steel changes in CS I might buy some. I guess I should have clarified for the price and with my mental checklist CS has it. Same reason Glock has it.

 

[sh00ter01]

No, people think it's a stupid test because 99% of people won't put pressure like that on the spine of their folders, and most won't even do that with a fixed blade. People that spine whack and otherwise try to destroy their folders are NOT "a large part of the market", at least not in my group of friends/acquaintance's. Maybe it's a regional thing

Nice little dig at the end there. Like how this thread has turn into several small little attacks going back and forth between groups of individuals.

Anyways, the people in your group of friends/acquaintance's that you associate with probably share similar thoughts when it comes to cutlery and its proper use, hence why you may not have observed stupid knife behavior.

You got to realize though that BF users, while seemingly many, make up a very small amount of the market when it comes to quantity of knives sold throughout the US and world. These non-BF people are the ones to which Jimbo is referring I believe. The same kinda guys that use their knives as pry-bars, screwdrivers, and chisels. They outnumber us greatly.

If BF/forum user were it, then gerber, frost, mtech, etc. wouldn't exist, but they're there and flourishing. We passionate few are just that, few.

 

[stabman]

I just use BM and SPCO, but with the steel changes in CS I might buy some. I guess I should have clarified for the price and with my mental checklist CS has it. Same reason Glock has it.

Well yes, Cold Steel does win in the price range battle.
With the exception of some of their newer models, which are selling for really big bucks, at least here in Canada.

 

[dubya3]

Nice little dig at the end there. Like how this thread has turn into several small little attacks going back and forth between groups of individuals.

Anyways, the people in your group of friends/acquaintance's that you associate with probably share similar thoughts when it comes to cutlery and its proper use, hence why you may not have observed stupid knife behavior.

You got to realize though that BF users, while seemingly many, make up a very small amount of the market when it comes to quantity of knives sold throughout the US and world. These non-BF people are the ones to which Jimbo is referring I believe. The same kinda guys that use their knives as pry-bars, screwdrivers, and chisels. They outnumber us greatly.

If BF/forum user were it, then gerber, frost, mtech, etc. wouldn't exist, but they're there and flourishing. We passionate few are just that, few.

What's the "nice little dig" refer to? I honestly don't understand that first paragraph.

Correct, my friends (most of them) use their knives properly and aren't stupid with them. We might all encounter a time in our lives where a Sebenza needs to be used extremely hard but, does a spine whack test on a brand new (not settled in) knife prove that it would be unreliable? That's the message I'm interpterpging from the video Demko posted.

You're 100% correct in your third paragraph, there are way more people that will use a knife to pry or use as a screwdriver than there are members on this forum. My own dad would probably use a folder like that but he's not a knife guy nor carries one. The big thing you're missing is the people that use a knife that way probably wouldn't be Cold Steel owners and they certainly won't be people that spend $400+ on a CRK. A $8 Chinese knife bought at Harbor Freight or at best a $25 Gerber from Walmart will be what's in their hands.

 

[dkblade]

1. I'd like to see a thread where people discuss things like this happening or not happening in real world use (no really, does this thread exist?)
2. I found that video pretty entertaining. I already wanted to buy a Cold Steel Code 4 not long from now.
3. My Sebenza is still, and will still be my favorite knife, and I'll definitely be buying more regardless of this!

Cheers!

 

[sh00ter01]

What's the "nice little dig" refer to? I honestly don't understand that first paragraph.

You wrote it and I have to point it out? Whole post was a dig, the ending was just the most obvious part.

No, people think it's a stupid test because 99% of people won't put pressure like that on the spine of their folders, and most won't even do that with a fixed blade. People that spine whack and otherwise try to destroy their folders are NOT "a large part of the market", at least not in my group of friends/acquaintance's. Maybe it's a regional thing

First, you have now agreed we BF users are few and that knife abusers exist in large quantities. AND you've admitted your friends and associates are like minded to you, but yet, you insinuated Jimbo75 is flat out wrong.

And second, you can't tell me you didn't look at Jimbo's location and then type that last line. Come on man, don't try and rolled one over on me...

You're 100% correct in your third paragraph, there are way more people that will use a knife to pry or use as a screwdriver than there are members on this forum. My own dad would probably use a folder like that but he's not a knife guy nor carries one. The big thing you're missing is the people that use a knife that way probably wouldn't be Cold Steel owners and they certainly won't be people that spend $400+ on a CRK. A $8 Chinese knife bought at Harbor Freight or at best a $25 Gerber from Walmart will be what's in their hands.

Yes and no. Go to any local gun show, you're likely to find several tables with Cold Steel knives sitting out along side the chinese junk. You most likely wont find a single CRK. Gun enthusiast that are not knife guys, can be some of the worst perpetrators when it comes to using a knives for non knife things (seen a guy on the range using a tanto voyager to pry a stuck case from a chamber before, just shook my head). CS knives aren't priced so high that only real enthusiast buy them like they do with CRK.

 

[dubya3]

You wrote it and I have to point it out? Whole post was a dig, the ending was just the most obvious part.



First, you have now agreed we BF users are few and that knife abusers exist in large quantities. AND you've admitted your friends and associates are like minded to you, but yet, you insinuated Jimbo75 is flat out wrong.

And second, you can't tell me you didn't look at Jimbo's location and then type that last line. Come on man, don't try and rolled one over on me...





Yes and no. Go to any local gun show, you're likely to find several tables with Cold Steel knives sitting out along side the chinese junk. You most likely wont find a single CRK. Gun enthusiast that are not knife guys, can be some of the worst perpetrators when it comes to using a knives for non knife things (seen a guy on the range using a tanto voyager to pry a stuck case from a chamber before, just shook my head). CS knives aren't priced so high that only real enthusiast buy them like they do with CRK.

Again, maybe it's a regional thing but, I'm not sure what the "dig" you're referring to is.

Yep, that's correct, did I ever contest that? I don't think so. Of course my friends are like minded, do you hang out with folks that don't share the same general ideas as you? I bet the majority of them are similar in thought.
It's not even a question that most people absolutely will never use their folders in a fashion that these tests simulate. It's like a person testing a car designed to run on 5 quarts of oil and only putting a single quart in it. Of course a Sebenza isn't going to beat the CS, it wasn't designed to handle that kind of stress (nor are most knives except the CS, of course). Cold Steel also wouldn't post videos of tests they would fail at which brings me to my next point. Why don't they test things 99% of users actually encounter in real life situations like slicing ability, edge retention, fit and finish and even lateral stress for the "large amount of stupid users" out there? My guess is because they wouldn't fare so well. This is a distasteful test and you don't have to agree but common sense says so. It proves absolutely nothing about real life, everyday use but it does show how desperate for a share of the market CS is. I guess the stupid crowd isn't as large as I thought.

I'm more of a gun enthusiast than I am a knife enthusiast and again, just about all my friends are into guns too. They know a quality product and don't abuse them to an extreme, gun or knife. It's pretty distasteful to say gun enthusiasts in general are stupid when it comes to using a knife because you saw one guy try to dislodge a FTE with a knife. Cold Steel is the baddest, toughest knife out there, surely it could handle the puny task of taking a spent shell out of the chamber.

 

[sh00ter01]

Again, maybe it's a regional thing but, I'm not sure what the "dig" you're referring to is.

If you don't see it, then I can't show you.

Yep, that's correct, did I ever contest that? I don't think so. Of course my friends are like minded, do you hang out with folks that don't share the same general ideas as you? I bet the majority of them are similar in thought.
It's not even a question that most people absolutely will never use their folders in a fashion that these tests simulate. It's like a person testing a car designed to run on 5 quarts of oil and only putting a single quart in it. Of course a Sebenza isn't going to beat the CS, it wasn't designed to handle that kind of stress (nor are most knives except the CS, of course). Cold Steel also wouldn't post videos of tests they would fail at which brings me to my next point. Why don't they test things 99% of users actually encounter in real life situations like slicing ability, edge retention, fit and finish and even lateral stress for the "large amount of stupid users" out there? My guess is because they wouldn't fare so well. This is a distasteful test and you don't have to agree but common sense says so. It proves absolutely nothing about real life, everyday use but it does show how desperate for a share of the market CS is. I guess the stupid crowd isn't as large as I thought.

My friends are varied, but we obviously have things in common. I don't use them as the litmus test for a given community (or consumer) as a whole though. There's a big 'ole world out there beyond what is in front of you.

As far as slicing ability and edge retention test, since the steel upgrade I'm not sure CRK would have that one in the bag either (and that's perfectly fine).

I'm more of a gun enthusiast than I am a knife enthusiast and again, just about all my friends are into guns too. They know a quality product and don't abuse them to an extreme, gun or knife. It's pretty distasteful to say gun enthusiasts in general are stupid when it comes to using a knife because you saw one guy try to dislodge a FTE with a knife. Cold Steel is the baddest, toughest knife out there, surely it could handle the puny task of taking a spent shell out of the chamber.

When? When did I say this? I'll do you a favor and answer that for you, I didn't. My exact words were, "Gun enthusiast that are not knife guys, can be some of the worst perpetrators when it comes to using a knives for non knife things".

Sounds like your gun friends are also knife guys. Not all gun guys are. Again, take a broader view then whats right in front of you.

Also, that one guy prying a stuck case was just one example of many times I've witnessed similar acts on the range. Apparently blade tips also make good front sight tools for AR's in a pinch.


Look, I'm not gonna get sucked into a long back and forth with you. You obviously have a strong opinion on this and it's the right one.
I'm out, take it easy:thumbup:

 

[ursamajor]

Actually I don't think I am. I'm not the one who set up the test and uploaded it to my YouTube channel. That's quite a bit of effort on Cold Steel's part to smack CRK. They are clearly serious enough to have gone through those paces.

All it took me was a few minutes to write a comment on what a douche move it is on their part. Easy!

What vehicle do you drive? I don't expect you to answer the question, they never do. But say for example, you drive a truck. And you buy 'Murican. Chevy, Ford, and Dodge disparage the hell out of each other's capabilities. Do you boycott those companies?

I think it is more of being upset that your chosen brand came up short. But its human.

 

[dkblade]

Upon further thought...

Wouldn't a more useful test be comparing the strength of the stop pin and pivot between the two knives? How about attaching the knives to the vice upside down and using a chain to hold as much weight as possible pulling downward on the blade in the direction you would normally be applying pressure?

While entertaining, and an impressive showcase of the triad locks strength accomplishing beater tasks most people would use a crowbar for, this is not a particularly useful testing method, it's more just flexing nuts.

 

[makak]

How about a test in which we wait ten years and see who still has got his Sebenza and whatever happens to Code4. I believe CRK might just win that one

 

[marthinus]

Some of my thoughts.

1. The Sebenza has to my knowledge never been marketed as a "hard use" knife. Rather a working knife. As a working knife it has been around for 25 years. If it was all BS the market would have picked up on it.

2. Andrew Demko made framelocks as well before he invented the Tri-Ad lock. Are people going to start asking for him to test his framelock next to a Sebenza next? So that it is apples to apples? Or his framelock against the Tri-Ad (as I am sure he might have already did).

3. Why no comparison between Cold Steels Ti-Lite models (liner lock) and Tri-Ad lock? Or a Cold Steel Liner lock to others for those Apples to Apples comparisons?

4. Backlocks/Tri-Ad locks can fail too. Liner and RIL are made to have a "controlled failure" under load. Anyone that has experienced a backlock failure knows that such a lock will break either at the lever or break in the pocket area and such a break is normally very sudden.

Liner/RIL failure.

Tri-Ad lock failure

At the end. Find what you like and enjoy people.

 

[Bluecoffee31]

G-shocks can outperform Rolex in some tests....so yeah......

 

[Jimbo75]

No, people think it's a stupid test because 99% of people won't put pressure like that on the spine of their folders, and most won't even do that with a fixed blade. People that spine whack and otherwise try to destroy their folders are NOT "a large part of the market", at least not in my group of friends/acquaintance's. Maybe it's a regional thing

Ooooh dubya......whilst the statistics you supplied are shocking (I never would've guessed it was that high!) so much has been misconstrued and contradicted in the quoted and following posts that I wouldn't even know where to start, I guess I'll just have to put it down to being a regional thing

Everyone else needs to get out there and use these damn knives, if they fold on you in normal or "hard use" report back, otherwise sing their praises. Conspiracy theories and telling CS how they should do their testing and that it's not really how people use their knives is just giving the CS fanboys a bloody good laugh .