Cold steel tri ad lock vs Spyderco compression lock (stonger lock)

[Huntsman Knife Co. LLC.]

Why are people so obsessed with lock strength? The only lock I have ever had fail on me is the liner lock. Of all the lock backs, axis locks, arc locks, Ball bearing locks, compression locks, and Ti framelocks Ive used Ive never had one fail. If you are using your folder so hard that you are worried about the lock breaking just buy a fixed blade. I know that with all my knives the blade would probably break before the lock.

 

[ThePharce]

Sal tests knives, and from all my impressions and thoughts, is a truthful guy.....if he says their no stronger I tend to believe that many times over the CS HYPE.....compression for the win(for all intents and purposes the tri ad is just a more intricate compression lock)

I take it you trust Sal more than Demko? It's his lock, CS just uses it. Either is going to be stronger than the blade it supports, so it's a moot point.

 

[Ankerson]

I trust my custom Demko.

When we talk about one of those the whole thing changes towards the Tri-Ad.

But then these are a different world.

I couldn't even think about how much pressure it would take to break one of his Customs and if it has Liners it would be almost impossible without a machine.

They will never break by hand, it won't happen.

 

[trix2004]

I made a promise I wouldn't do any more of that type of testing anymore.

is this somehow related to ball lock failure on manix 2 ?

 

[singularity35]

is this somehow related to ball lock failure on manix 2 ?

Hehehe. I, too am wondering.

 

[Nternal]

When we talk about one of those the whole thing changes towards the Tri-Ad.

But then these are a different world.

I couldn't even think about how much pressure it would take to break one of his Customs and if it has Liners it would be almost impossible without a machine.

They will never break by hand, it won't happen.

Honestly I think the spartan in particular is up there with the strongest production tri-ad lock folder.

 

[Ankerson]

is this somehow related to ball lock failure on manix 2 ?

It was for a lot of reasons.

 

[hardheart]

I'd like to know too. Saying that both are enough for all knife needs is not really saying anything. It's not about sufficiency, it's about which one is stronger whether you need that strength or not.

actually, it kind of is about sufficiency, because the locks are strong enough to outlast the blades or supporting handle materials. The weak point is usually elsewhere in the design and not in these locks.

I would say the Nak-lok is a variation on the Compression lock. The Puzzle lock is nearly identical. The Tri-ad isn't all that similar, imo. If it is, then you have to add in the BBL, bolt-action, Ram safe, D.O.G., and others under "wedge something between the tang and blade stop" category.

 

[singularity35]

actually, it kind of is about sufficiency, because the locks are strong enough to outlast the blades or supporting handle materials. The weak point is usually elsewhere in the design and not in these locks.

But how do we know that? Especially since we don't see any "abuse" tests these days.

I seem to remember some abuse tests did not result in handles failing or blades or pivots breaking. It's either the blade developed a lot of blade play or the lock failed outright.

We really always hear this chorus about the locks being stronger than all the other elements of the blade. I just still haven't seen a blade or a handle break where the stress applied also stressed the lock. I have seen broken blades but only through lateral stress(prying). I dunno but spine whack or overstrike seem to be a test of lock strength and reliability(whether it is relevant to everyday use or not). I have never seen blades break through being spine whacked.

Maybe somebody should spine whack and overstrike a knife until something breaks. Maybe we'll see if it's the lock, the handle, or the blade.

We also always hear that folders are pre-broken and a fixed blade of the same size and dimensions is stronger. If as you say that both locks won't fail before the other components, then we might have reached that happy time when folders are stronger than fixed blades of the same dimensions.

 

[Ankerson]

actually, it kind of is about sufficiency, because the locks are strong enough to outlast the blades or supporting handle materials. The weak point is usually elsewhere in the design and not in these locks.

I would think the weak point would be in the other materials used if something fails before the lock does.

That's not really a weakness though as they are very strong, it just points out how good the locks really are and how far we have come in lock design.

If the blade snaps or the handle breaks apart before the lock fails then we have a very strong lock.

 

[Orion's Belt]

Both are strong enough for me, so it boils down to ease of use for me. In which case I'd choose the compression lock.

 

[hardheart]

But how do we know that? Especially since we don't see any "abuse" tests these days.

I seem to remember some abuse tests did not result in handles failing or blades or pivots breaking. It's either the blade developed a lot of blade play or the lock failed outright.

We really always hear this chorus about the locks being stronger than all the other elements of the blade. I just still haven't seen a blade or a handle break where the stress applied also stressed the lock. I have seen broken blades but only through lateral stress(prying). I dunno but spine whack or overstrike seem to be a test of lock strength and reliability(whether it is relevant to everyday use or not). I have never seen blades break through being spine whacked.

Maybe somebody should spine whack and overstrike a knife until something breaks. Maybe we'll see if it's the lock, the handle, or the blade.

We also always hear that folders are pre-broken and a fixed blade of the same size and dimensions is stronger. If as you say that both locks won't fail before the other components, then we might have reached that happy time when folders are stronger than fixed blades of the same dimensions.

This is generally from static weight hangs, not impact tests. I guess someone would have to design an impact test that would be translatable to different sized and shaped knives before any sort of comparison could be made. Direction and point of impact can cover a limitless number of possibilities, and depending on the blade profile, some will be more possible or likely than others. We can test for a lot of things, people even shoot their knives with rifles. How useful that is is another matter.

 

[Frozy]

I've throw my knives to test their lock strength because throwing a folder is the ultimate abuse.
Mini Ak-47 (Tri-ad lock): Out of 50 throws, the lock failed at most 2 times due to a really bad throw. No lock damage at all.
Spyderco Delica (Back lock): It fails 50% of the time after awhile. Lock was seriously damaged after 50 throws.
Paramilitary2 (Compression lock): 30 throws, no lock failure. No damage to lock, no blade play.

I'm really impressed by tri-ad lock and compression lock. They are so strong, u can't go wrong with both of them

 

[singularity35]

This is generally from static weight hangs, not impact tests. I guess someone would have to design an impact test that would be translatable to different sized and shaped knives before any sort of comparison could be made. Direction and point of impact can cover a limitless number of possibilities, and depending on the blade profile, some will be more possible or likely than others. We can test for a lot of things, people even shoot their knives with rifles. How useful that is is another matter.

So which component breaks first? The blade or the handle? If it's the stop pin, I consider that a part of the lock since the lockbar interacts and transfers load directly to it.

 

[cziv]

I made a promise I wouldn't do any more of that type of testing anymore.

No more spine whacks or no more hard use tests? It's a pity, you're so good at it.

I've throw my knives to test their lock strength because throwing a folder is the ultimate abuse.
Mini Ak-47 (Tri-ad lock): Out of 50 throws, the lock failed at most 2 times due to a really bad throw. No lock damage at all.
Spyderco Delica (Back lock): It fails 50% of the time after awhile. Lock was seriously damaged after 50 throws.
Paramilitary2 (Compression lock): 30 throws, no lock failure. No damage to lock, no blade play.

I'm really impressed by tri-ad lock and compression lock. They are so strong, u can't go wrong with both of them

I'll bet your neighbors clear out of their backyards when they see you coming out with a handful of folders!

 

[A.P.F.]

I read that as circumcision..... Not sure what that says about me as a knife collector.

Either your name is 'Bobbit', or you only collect Kosher knives.

 

[hardheart]

So which component breaks first? The blade or the handle? If it's the stop pin, I consider that a part of the lock since the lockbar interacts and transfers load directly to it.

I've heard of pivot pins and linerless scales failing in some cases The stop pin itself doesn't seem to fail too often, but the handle around it can in some knives. The parts are generally very tough compared to our expectations. I've seen pics of slipjoint tests where a simple peened pivot rod in micarta scales survived the blade being bent in both directions multiple times. The carbon steel blade broke but the pivot and handle held.

 

[Ankerson]

No more spine whacks or no more hard use tests? It's a pity, you're so good at it.



I'll bet your neighbors clear out of their backyards when they see you coming out with a handful of folders!

I learned what I wanted to learn about abusing folders, locks, snapping tips off, bending them etc.

My interest is in Steels, edge retention and cutting ability, and I do push them to the limit when I do a full blown test on a steel.

 

[singularity35]

I learned what I wanted to learn about abusing folders, locks, snapping tips off, bending them etc.

Do share.

 

[cziv]

I learned what I wanted to learn about abusing folders, locks, snapping tips off, bending them etc.

My interest is in Steels, edge retention and cutting ability, and I do push them to the limit when I do a full blown test on a steel.

So you're still at the cutting with different steels eh? Doesn't it get hard on your hands after many thousands of cuts?

Well I appreciate your feedback from your cutting and categorization. I think I have that page saved to my favorites. It would be nice if you put it in your signature line too! :thumbup: