Oh, ha! Had to read back to see what you were talkin about. I assure you, I didn't mean it like that.
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Cold Steel VS Zero Tolerance
- Thread starter The Lone Gunmen
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Oh, ha! Had to read back to see what you were talkin about. I assure you, I didn't mean it like that.
Bigfattyt
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In many jurisdictions, they can and will. If a police officer can get the knife to open, with any amount of force (no matter how hard he has to work at it, or how many attempts it takes, you can be charged as if it were a gravity knife).
When I carried the axis style lock, I would tighten the pivot down to make it near impossible to do.
"really making a swooping action" is exactly what they can and will do in many jurisdiction.
The statute where I am at has recently been changed.
""Spring blade knife" means any knife, including a prototype, model, or other sample, with a blade that is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement."
Just recently they added an exemption for knives with a bias toward closure, and for spring assisted.
Guess who still charges the spring assisted knives as switchblades? Many of the local officers.
I've had to argue with prosecutors for clients charged with it.
The argument is easier now.
But knives still get siezed, and clients charged.
Many of the police in my jurisdiction still call any Kershaw thwy find with a speed assist a switchblade.
I've seen judges in more than one jurisdiction convict.
Leek? Yup, judge ruled it was an illegal switchblade. Called it a dangerous weapon. (Luckily I did not represent that guy, or have to argue the issue in front of that judge).
If you are confident no officer will ever charge you, who am I to argue With you.
Your confidence will shield you!
Or your explanation to the judge that the officer had to try hard to flip the blade out means it can't be illegal.....
That argument works for the tens of thousands of people convicted of carrying a gravity knives in New York! (And by it works, I mean it most certainly does not work!)
I think if you were charged where I am at now I could win that argument, but no one in my jurisdiction has argued it since the change.
They are still charging jt from time to time, but they focus on calling assisted knives illegal switchblades or "spring blade knives"
I've nott had to try such a case, but have had success convincing the prosecutors that they should dismiss such charges.
(On A Side note this is not legal advice, and does not create any attorney client privilege, real, imagined, or otherwise between the reader and my self.... always seek legal advice from an attorney in your local jurisdiction... if you have legal questions).
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Well the vast majority of people carrying benchmades and the like have never had problems with the police (myself included). I guess if there's a real ass of a cop he could do what you said, but I think that's a very rare occurrence. I live in California and I hear NY is very tight on knife laws, so it might be different for you. I think if a cop was inspecting a knife it wouldn't be standard protocol to shake the knife up and down, more less make a swooping motion. I could be wrong, but it's just not something I've heard people being concerned about here.
Thank God I live in AZ.
The title of this thread in and of itself is very polarizing.. I think the reason this thread has garnered so many responses is because people view it (the OPs post) as Cold steel fanboys knocking ZT fanboys. The people who hate cold steel are going to keep hating cold steel, and the same with ZT. When people post threads like these they should be careful not to make it sound like an attack on the brand, which may have been the intention of the OP.. If it was, good job you achieved what you wanted. I dislike cold steel even more (as if that were possible?) after reading the posts posted here.
As soon as I need to throw my knife into a brick wall while slaughtering pigs I'll pick up a CS. Until then, and as long as I'm using my knife as a tool for cutting tasks I'll take a ZT. Looking back I think knives might actually be for cutting not climbing, cinderblock smashing or putting 1000lbs of force onto the spine.
I find your post interesting. If what you are saying here is true about what KAI sees, and intends their ZT line to be, then why do they market the line as:
"Designed and manufactured to stand up to heavy-duty use, Zero Tolerance Knives are built of premium materials. The knives have earned a reputation among their devoted fans as being "built like a tank" or a "real beast" or even beingproudly"overbuilt"
If it is just about cutting tasks, then why the whole Zero Tolerance name? Why write "DESIGNED AND MANUFACTURED TO STAND UP TO HEAVY-DUTY USE" on their website?
Chris Reeve, the inventor, and still the best designer of the Framelock, will tell you point blank, not to flick open a frame lock knife fast, because it will quickly develop lock rock.
I am sure that he also full well knows that a frame lock is not suitable for a hard use knife, regardless of materials. It is beyond the design's capabilities.
You won't see Demko grabbing a Leek, Needs Work, or any other Kershaw branded knife, for a shoot out. Why? Because those knives are not marketed as "Hard Use, Tactical, Operator, blah blah, blah" knives.
Just like you won't see them do it against a CRK folder, because those knives are not marketed that way.
KAI painted the bullseye on ZT's back. Just like Spyderco did with the Tatanka. But unlike KAI, Sal and Co actually innovated, and put together something that IS legitimately "hard use" in e power lock-but just shy of the Triad in strength.
Leftytwogunz
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:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: great troll thread :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
I looked at their website too and wow.. ninja stars, blow guns, a "plastic knives" category, a line endorsed by Steven Segal, boomerangs, rubber baseball bats, a "medieval buckler" that appears to be made from rubber, dragon walking stick, special forces shovel, chaos dagger, warcraft tanto (LOL), how about some battle shades dude??? I guess the logic being that if they can make plastic knives why not make sunglasses too?
You got ninja swords, pepper spray and karambits. Kitchen knives that I wouldn't gift my worst enemy. A 16 3/4 " folding knife called the G-10 Espada, two pages worth of plastic handled machetes, multiple fully serrated pieces of crap that I would never use, in my entire life, for any reason, what looks to be some type of sex toy called the Koga SD1 "Made of virtually unbreakable plastic", some plastic war clubs, a "pocket shark", a 15" 2 pound throwing weapon and a knife called the AK-47...
I guess I need to mention cold steel's claim to fame the triad lock. Strong lock guys, it holds up weights great, and it spine whacks better than any other brand's knife, a completely useless test to prove a knife's worth, but you guys do it the best! Also glad to see that you are now incorporating a mediocre steel into your line up these days XHP.. although that's taking the big assumption that we'd ever stray from your amazing lineup of plastic knives. Please allow me to show my personal favorite the cold steel honey comb.
That's high performance knives right there baby, I don't care what anybody says. And since you made this a VS. thread I'll take a USA made ZT knife EVERY day of the week over any of these pieces of imported plastic, useless toys or triad-equipped, spine whacking wonders.
Of course cold steel does have their fan base.. CS was featured on the big screen in films such as the popular children's movie The Hunger Games, blockbusting Scorpion King 3 and the talent packed Expendables. When I clicked on the "cold steel in movies" link the reaction from their fan base was purely awesome. Here are the top two comments that showed up:
"I thik cold steel should make sharpened kama with a chain attached to it
Like one of these .because i bet cold steel could make a battle ready one
And i would be wicked to have one
""you're talking about an Kusari-Gama! it was always my favorite ninja weapon! i even made one myself when i was younger. of course, it was crap. haha"
While ZT appears to base their products on quality workmanship, designs and materials, CS seems to be trapped in some fantasy land where people use plastic war clubs, need their knives to pass through metal detectors and deem a knife worthy by a method unrelated to actual knife usage, all the while wishing for more ninja-esque toys such as a sickle with a chain attached.
It's clear that both companies have vastly different product lines and appeal to a different fan base. Perhaps it isn't even worthwhile for us to compare the two. I no longer own a knife from either company and don't have any immediate plans to purchase one either. If I did though, I'd probably chose a knife from ZT. If I need to find some dangerous toy for the nephews I think CS would be a good start.
Everything written there, has found it's mall ninja equal in[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106] great troll thread [emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]
I looked at their website too and wow.. ninja stars, blow guns, a "plastic knives" category, a line endorsed by Steven Segal, boomerangs, rubber baseball bats, a "medieval buckler" that appears to be made from rubber, dragon walking stick, special forces shovel, chaos dagger, warcraft tanto (LOL), how about some battle shades dude??? I guess the logic being that if they can make plastic knives why not make sunglasses too?
You got ninja swords, pepper spray and karambits. Kitchen knives that I wouldn't gift my worst enemy. A 16 3/4 " folding knife called the G-10 Espada, two pages worth of plastic handled machetes, multiple fully serrated pieces of crap that I would never use, in my entire life, for any reason, what looks to be some type of sex toy called the Koga SD1 "Made of virtually unbreakable plastic", some plastic war clubs, a "pocket shark", a 15" 2 pound throwing weapon and a knife called the AK-47...
I guess I need to mention cold steel's claim to fame the triad lock. Strong lock guys, it holds up weights great, and it spine whacks better than any other brand's knife, a completely useless test to prove a knife's worth, but you guys do it the best! Also glad to see that you are now incorporating a mediocre steel into your line up these days XHP.. although that's taking the big assumption that we'd ever stray from your amazing lineup of plastic knives. Please allow me to show my personal favorite the cold steel honey comb.
That's high performance knives right there baby, I don't care what anybody says. And since you made this a VS. thread I'll take a USA made ZT knife EVERY day of the week over any of these pieces of imported plastic, useless toys or triad-equipped, spine whacking wonders.
Of course cold steel does have their fan base.. CS was featured on the big screen in films such as the popular children's movie The Hunger Games, blockbusting Scorpion King 3 and the talent packed Expendables. When I clicked on the "cold steel in movies" link the reaction from their fan base was purely awesome. Here are the top two comments that showed up:
"I thik cold steel should make sharpened kama with a chain attached to it
Like one of these .because i bet cold steel could make a battle ready one
And i would be wicked to have one
"you're talking about an Kusari-Gama! it was always my favorite ninja weapon! i even made one myself when i was younger. of course, it was crap. haha"
While ZT appears to base their products on quality workmanship, designs and materials, CS seems to be trapped in some fantasy land where people use plastic war clubs, need their knives to pass through metal detectors and deem a knife worthy by a method unrelated to actual knife usage, all the while wishing for more ninja-esque toys such as a sickle with a chain attached.
It's clear that both companies have vastly different product lines and appeal to a different fan base. Perhaps it isn't even worthwhile for us to compare the two. I no longer own a knife from either company and don't have any immediate plans to purchase one either. If I did though, I'd probably chose a knife from ZT. If I need to find some dangerous toy for the nephews I think CS would be a good start.
Painted tiger stripes on a recurve-the epitome of salad dodging mall ninja.
Leftytwogunz
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A finish choice in one knife does not equal an entire product line straight from your mall ninja catalog. Keep trying though.
Here is the dungeon master himself vanquishing this harmless piece of meat with a gigantic sword that Tosh.O broke on his comedy show. Funny stuff.
Here is the dungeon master himself vanquishing this harmless piece of meat with a gigantic sword that Tosh.O broke on his comedy show. Funny stuff.
But it does. Made with the same end user in mind, both at your local mall's "cutlery shoppe"A finish choice in one knife does not equal an entire product line straight from your mall ninja catalog. Keep trying though.
Here is the dungeon master himself vanquishing this harmless piece of meat with a gigantic sword that Tosh.O broke on his comedy show. Funny stuff.
Jesus Christ dude, it's time to let this thread die already.
Now you're trying to validate your argument by dragging CRKs into the mix?
For you information, sebenza means "work". No, it doesn't mean "take this thing and stab it through a car door", but they are certainly built to do some serious work. Please stop speaking for Mr Reeve when you are clearly ignorant when it comes to his knives.
So he was just joshing everyone when he wrote not to flick his knives on his website, because it will damage the lock.
You are amusing. You are on quite the crusade to defend makers, who have absolutely no idea who you are. I bet it makes for a very satisfying life.
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When price is taken into account the comparison seems somewhat inappropriate. KAI Industries USA make three different ranges of knives and Zero Tolerance is their top end folder range. Cold Steel meanwhile encompasses everything from their Mini Tuff Lite to their Grosse Messer. If we were to compare Cold Steel knives to those knives in the same price range as KAI's what would we find? Kershaws, often made in China, 8Cr14MoV as often as not, ranging in price from about $20 to about $140. Given the choice between a $90 Chinese made Kershaw Shallot , or a $92 Taiwanese made BD1 4" Voyager, that's a very different kettle of fish. I'd take the Voyager every time.
Zero Tolerance start at $175 which aligns their 350 with Cold Steel's AK-47 in XHP. At that level perhaps Cold Steel do need to work on the refinement of their products, but I think I'd still take the AK.
Zero Tolerance start at $175 which aligns their 350 with Cold Steel's AK-47 in XHP. At that level perhaps Cold Steel do need to work on the refinement of their products, but I think I'd still take the AK.
I can not believe I was drawn into this debate after getting a good nights rest. Frankly who cares about any of this crap. I must have yesterday cause I posted right! The deal for me is this. I want the best tool for the job at hand. If the tool is slightly over built, good. If the tool is totally over built from a safety perspective to the user, really good I say. Do I care if your steel will but more than mine, nope cause I can sharpen a knife. Do I like good ergonomics in a knife that I use, yep. The U-H has all these features I desire. You may not desire these features which is good for you. That is what makes the world go round. Diversity in the knife world. keepem sharp
bodog
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First off, good post. Not inflammatory, just the truth.
Second, it seems as though most of the people defending ZT in this thread would be happy with a slip joint knife built like a tank. That's fine.
Third, I don't see many straight up CS fanboys in this thread. I see mainly people saying that if a locking folder us produced it should be able to withstand at least some kind of pressure going the wrong way or else there wouldn't need to be a locking mechanism at all.
Fourth, someone said that because the Kershaw subforum closed that that defaulted the general knife folder into a KAI forum. I fail to see why that should be allowed. If KAI wanted a subforum I'm sure it'd be no problem but they don't. General knife discussion should mean that qualities about knives in general should be fair game and if ZT falls into that general discussion and there is criticism it shouldn't be withheld simply because KAI fanboys have no dedicated subforum.
Fifth, I'm glad knarfeng is the mod monitoring this thread. He seems even keeled and willing to allow free thought and discussion as long as there's no personal attacks. Thank you for that.
Sixth, it seems that in spite of the obviously wildly different opinions posted here, it has pretty much remained on point without a lot of side chatter, troll posts, and insults. Thank you fellow forumites for that. It's an interesting and entertaining thread without a lot of hostility. Now if we could just get some of these ZT defenders to stop defending things that shouldn't be defended maybe we can get somewhere
ZT does a lot of good. It just so happens that the liner lock on the 300 series sucks. Maybe KAI should fix that to be in line with their marketing or fix their marketing statements to be in line with their products. And if CS wanted to compete maybe they should build their knives in the US with better materials and craftsmanship rather than make videos that disparage only one function of a knife from other companies. Yes, there are more qualities about a knife than just the lock, but it is important or else a knife wouldn't need a lock to begin with.
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Why do people keep lumping liner locks and frame locks together? A frame lock is much stronger than a liner lock and we have yet to see a head to head comparison of a ZT framelock with any other type of lock. I have seen abusive tests by the Russian on youtube and the 0550 withstood it like a champ. When I hold my 0560 and 0550 in a position to do actual cutting, I KNOW its not going to fail. Same with my Sebenza.
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