poolhustler
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Not all birds fly.........
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Cold Steel VS Zero Tolerance
- Thread starter The Lone Gunmen
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Not all birds fly.........
You're not understanding why I'm posting here in the first place. I'm not PART of this discussion, I am only here to point out the fact that OP never intended for it to BE a discussion. That is all.
Never did I express the opinion that ZTs are better than cold steels. Only that the OP was wrong to start a troll thread ignorantly proclaiming that cold steels were better in the first place.
I have knives from both companies and the feel and quality of the zero tolerance felt twice as good as the cold steal (it also cost twice as much). I did have an issue with the lock up of my ZT. I noticed it would fail with light pressure. I also chipped the blade doing something with it I thought it could handle (I thought it was indestructible 
). I sent it in and they fixed the lock up and replaced the blade with no charge or questions asked. Now it locks up great. The cold steal now sits in my tool box and the ZT as been my EDC knife for the past several years. Both are great knives but you get what you pay for.
). I sent it in and they fixed the lock up and replaced the blade with no charge or questions asked. Now it locks up great. The cold steal now sits in my tool box and the ZT as been my EDC knife for the past several years. Both are great knives but you get what you pay for.The OP talks about locks.
I use my knives in the woods. I cut wood for the fire and do carving for traps. Most of the times, I do it fast and in less than ideal conditions. Sometimes it is dark, sometimes the woods are dense and do not give you a lot of space, sometimes it is cold and rainy. I use fixed blades, but I have used a few folding knives as well. Cutting and preparing firewood puts strain on any knife, but with the proper technique, almost any decent knife can handle it. If you really need to do it fast, the cuts are not going to be perfectly vertical, and the blade will stick a little to the wood after biting it. You will have to use some force to remove it from the wood, I guess this is basic stuff to anyone that uses knives this way. Bulding wood traps takes carving, and this carving involves a lot of lateral stress to blade, as you have to carve up curves and notches. You use all kinds of different grips to do this work.
Some people would call this "hard use".
I have had a CS Lawman and I have handled a ZT566.
I don´t know about hard use, I really don´t. But for the stuff I do, the CS´ triad lock is clearly, obviously, glaringly superior to ZT´s frame locks. This has nothing to do with ZT´s execution. The triad lock is much more realiable, by design.
Actually, the Lawman offered a more positive grip, since it was a lot coarser than ZT´s. Of course, the CS woud also cut better than the ZT566, as its blade was thinner and FFG.
The ZT was prettier, though.
I use my knives in the woods. I cut wood for the fire and do carving for traps. Most of the times, I do it fast and in less than ideal conditions. Sometimes it is dark, sometimes the woods are dense and do not give you a lot of space, sometimes it is cold and rainy. I use fixed blades, but I have used a few folding knives as well. Cutting and preparing firewood puts strain on any knife, but with the proper technique, almost any decent knife can handle it. If you really need to do it fast, the cuts are not going to be perfectly vertical, and the blade will stick a little to the wood after biting it. You will have to use some force to remove it from the wood, I guess this is basic stuff to anyone that uses knives this way. Bulding wood traps takes carving, and this carving involves a lot of lateral stress to blade, as you have to carve up curves and notches. You use all kinds of different grips to do this work.
Some people would call this "hard use".
I have had a CS Lawman and I have handled a ZT566.
I don´t know about hard use, I really don´t. But for the stuff I do, the CS´ triad lock is clearly, obviously, glaringly superior to ZT´s frame locks. This has nothing to do with ZT´s execution. The triad lock is much more realiable, by design.
Actually, the Lawman offered a more positive grip, since it was a lot coarser than ZT´s. Of course, the CS woud also cut better than the ZT566, as its blade was thinner and FFG.
The ZT was prettier, though.
Krissig12 said:
Wow, that is some serious speculation right there.
So according to you, everyone has their own personal excuse not to talk about CS knives' failures, lock or otherwise.
The "cheap ass regular joes" would just throw the whole knife away or contact CS.
The "mall ninjas who've graduated from Budk" would never detect the various problems that the knives certainly have.
The "cheap asses" would just shrug it off if their CS knife fails because, in your words, CS knives don't have quite as much "money and prestige" behind them.
And I suppose the hundreds of regular forum members who own CS knives are all delusional and completely unwilling to report an easily defeated lock on what is probably the most hated production knife company around.
Seems like you covered all your bases! :thumbup:
Ohhhh okay, because you can find one knife that's better quality from cold steel compared to a ZT, that makes all my views invalid. You're right, Cold steel is definetly known for their excellent F&F, superb customer service, and great steels. I'll tell you those last couple of sentences were me being sarcastic (felt I needed to explain that because frankly you don't seem to be....fast shall I say?)
What I'm saying overall is ZT is known for what I previously stated, and the same with cold steel. It's what their company's are built on. disagree? Go look at their products.
You still aren't getting it.
I explicitly stated that regardless of whether my speculations were true or not, I wasn't saying that there were in fact cold steels breaking. Just that it was a possibility that you couldn't completely rule out. My speculation was only in fleshing out WHY that might be the case.
But that was all a side track. It just looked a lot more prominent in text. The end of each of the two posts I made went a little like this; "I don't even care if they aren't breaking. I still don't need or want them, and the fanboys are wrong to suggest that everyone should"
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Well as I said, that's his stated aim. For a long time the tagline for Cold Steel was "the world's strongest, sharpest, knives". Since I'm a terrible mindreader I just have to take the man at his word.
Even critics of the Cold Steel fanboyism in this thread have acknowledged that the Tri-Ad lock is exceptionally strong, even if they dispute the necessity of a lock that strong. Andrew Demko is a very clever knife designer, although of course there are many clever knife designers. Taiwanese manufacturing allows Cold Steel to sell good quality products at much lower prices than they'd have to charge if they produced in the US. Any manufacturer can have defects and failures, regardless of where their knife is made. AUS8 was an adequate steel that kept them in business until they started switching to the Carpenter steels they're offering now.
I don't know about "supremacy", but a very good product at a very good price? Yes. Enough silliness to appeal to the big kid still alive in most people? Also yes.
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And before you whine about how there's more than one cold steel with superior build quality to a ZT, I'll tell you I meant that the majority of cold steels have inferior build-quality. There's probably a few cold steels with better build-quality, but they're in the minority and aren't like the bulk of the CS line.
They have an expansive line of Japan made knives
Okay, I apologize. Locks breaking from abuse aren't really what I have in mind, though, because Triad locks will eventually break. I'm talking about inappropriately easy disengagement of the lock due to hand pressure, light taps, gentle prying or the knife twisting in the hand. As far as I can tell and from the absence of any reports of it occurring, this sort of inappropriate disengagement does not happen on Triad locks.
Fair enough, I can't argue with that.
However, in my own experience I haven't seen enough of it happen with well built frame locks to condemn them either. Perhaps one day I'll regret trusting them. But until then I'll just keep using them hard
AusLoX
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Bigfattyt
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I have both.
The triad does not require me to put my thumb across the blade path while pushing the blade closed like a liner or frame lock.
I've been cut by a b
lock failure on both a liner lock and frame lock. I've had examples of both close with the slightest bump on the spine. Not spine wacks, because I don't do that. Just slight negative pressure will slip a lot of liner locks and frame locks.
The axis lock/ ultra locks are plenty strong, and do well with jarring or negative pressure.
They have a bit of an issue legally (LEO's can treat them like gravity knives because they are easy to flip open).
Closing the triad takes no more thought or effort than unclicking a seat belt, or open a pop tab, or flipping a light switch to me.
But I have to admit, my 9 year old does struggle, and he can close the axis lock pretty easy.
So I guess if I had a finger pinch force-o-meter I guess I could measure it and compare it with the finger-slide-o meter for the ultra lock/axis lock pinchie-slide action to close that knife.
I do just really like the triad. If I could get the lock in other brands, I sure would!
On a side note, the problem Demko points out with the liner lock is one I have had with several makes with liner locks, and seen in more than one frame lock.
Bumping or negative pressure on the spine is no good. I've been cut by more than one brand while making awkward cuts in tight spaces before. I've seen it happen to others, and seen a liner lock fail, with just a little negative pressure cutting rubber sidewall on a tire necessitate a trip to the emergency and follow up surgery.
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Bigfattyt
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Now that was funny!
Wonder if we could get those guys to read this thread. The accent makes everything sound better!
Well said.
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