Cold Steel's Direction

C

Confederate

Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Messages
2,826
Having just received Cold Steel's most recent catalog, I'm concerned by its direction. Their Voyager line used to have AUS 8A blades, then were upgraded to VG1. They were light, strong knives with an excellent blade steel. Now the Voyager line has gone back to AUS 8A blades, but the locks have been upgraded to Tri-Ads. Although some may like the new locks, I think CS is in a unique position of having ballyhooed VG1 steel and then by their own admission downgraded their steel from VG1 to AUS 8A! And they did this with no explanation.

Their San Mai III steel has VG1 at its core, but VG1 is plenty strong to be a blade steel on its own, and people have said it's substantially better than AUS 8A, and CS has said this in its own literature. One wonders why CS has chosen to push its Tri-Ad locks rather than its VG1 steel.

So what do YOU think? Has Cold Steel made the right decision to push the Tri-Ad locks over the upgrade in steel?
 
It wasn't about that, they had a problem with their manufacturer no able to meet deadlines so they had to move production to Taiwan.

Can't get VG-1 outside of Japan. ;)
 
I'm pretty impressed with Cold Steel's direction of late, personally. I've whined about them in the past because the cold steel knives I've owned in the past were pretty lack-lustre for the price and I wasn't really impressed with their designs. They've discontinued many of their ho-hum models, they've introduced a bunch of new, very interesting designs (like the stuff by Andrew Demko), and they're putting the Tri-Ad lock in more and more of their designs (pretty sweet, imho, since it seems to be one hell of a solid locking mechanism). I recently bought an American Lawman and I have to admit that, in terms of quality, it blew the other Cold Steel products I've owned out of the water.

tl;dr: I approve.
 
Confederate said:
So what do YOU think? Has Cold Steel made the right decision to push the Tri-Ad locks over the upgrade in steel?
Click to expand...


i want both.

love the triad, lukewarm about aus8.

i don't even need a "supersteel". i'd be pretty happy with vg1/vg10.
 
I don't like the downgrade on the VG-1 Voyager blade either - not one d*mn bit! I have (1) VG1 Voyager left since I gifted one before this switch happened. I've got enough other folders to know I'll never need the AUS8 version.
 
My Voyagers (lg. clip, lg. tanto) in AUS8 have given perfect service. AUS8 has a pinch of vanadium, and holds an excellent, fine edge which with the high thin grind cuts very well IMHO. It's not S30V, but an excellent cutlery steel IMHO.
 
they need to move in the direction of producing models with the materials and construction of their now discontinued high end knives, but designed by demko with his tri ad lock. imagine something halfway between the production version of the american lawman and the demko AD10. even with aus8a blades, itd be one hell of a knife.

i know their were the espada series, and black rhino(im lucky enough to have em), and i enjoy them all. as well as the other tri ad lock knives. its really more of a wish, since the one AD10 i have just isnt enough!
 
AUS8 and VG1 are very similar in composition. I doubt there is a big enough difference to get upset as both are mediocre at best for edge retention. For a $65 knife I was very unimpressed by the fit and finish of my American Lawman. I have much better built knives for the price. So I'm still not concerned with the direction Cold Steel takes, even with their upgraded back lock that incorporates a stop pin. Strong but not an easy to use one handed knife. When they decide to upgrade their steel I will start to take them a little more serious. My AL has just sat in a box for months. Maybe one day I will carry it as a loaner or beater so I can scrape paint and not feel real bad about scratching up my higher end knives and ruining the mirror polished edge.
 
What would you rather have: A strong lock or the super steel of the day?
 
Since 2 years they introduce more interesting design and less ninja's equipments (there is always some crazy items to play in the garden, but fine toys).
IMO they're in the good direction with Demko or Perrin, and I hope to see more collaboration like that.
I want to be optimist, and maybe after design and superlock, we'll see high end steel, Ti or micarta on the handle, maybe...
 
I would like to say that CS's decision to go with AUS-8 on their Voyagers was a good one...that is what I would like to say. In fact, I have been buying up the VG-1 models whenever I find them. The steel performed fine, the locks performed fine and the handles were comfortable in many positions. I don't dislike the new designs, I just like the older ones better.

Would I buy a new model just for the Tri-Ad lock? Nope. The old locks were plenty strong IMO and easy to release. All in all, I think that CS has produced some great new models, but the Voyager series ain't one of them.
 
dano said:
What would you rather have: A strong lock or the super steel of the day?
Click to expand...

What's wrong with having both?

I'm assuming the "downgrade" was for cost reasons. The thing is, Cold Steel doesn't market towards steel snobs. They market to people who want the knife they saw on youtube stab through a car door and chop up a pant leg filled with meat. The change in steel types means nothing to all but the most knowledgeable and picky of knife buyers (aka: us), and we make up a pretty small share of their market. Do you really think that Joe Douchebag shopping at the mall cares what steel the Espada uses? That he knows that it'd slice through XX% more layers of cardboard before going dull if it were made with some other type of steel that also means gibberish to him, because he saw a test by Soandso on Bladeforums? No. He saw it stab through the hood of a car on youtube, and he saw Mickey Roarke throw one at a dartboard in The Expendables. That's all he knows, and that's all he cares about. And if Cold Steel can improve their profit margin by a couple of bucks per knife by using a cheaper steel, don't act surprised when they do. After all, what do you expect from a company that markets their knives this way, then gives you only a one-year warranty?
 
Planterz said:
What's wrong with having both?

I'm assuming the "downgrade" was for cost reasons. The thing is, Cold Steel doesn't market towards steel snobs. They market to people who want the knife they saw on youtube stab through a car door and chop up a pant leg filled with meat. The change in steel types means nothing to all but the most knowledgeable and picky of knife buyers (aka: us), and we make up a pretty small share of their market. Do you really think that Joe Douchebag shopping at the mall cares what steel the Espada uses? That he knows that it'd slice through XX% more layers of cardboard before going dull if it were made with some other type of steel that also means gibberish to him, because he saw a test by Soandso on Bladeforums? No. He saw it stab through the hood of a car on youtube, and he saw Mickey Roarke throw one at a dartboard in The Expendables. That's all he knows, and that's all he cares about. And if Cold Steel can improve their profit margin by a couple of bucks per knife by using a cheaper steel, don't act surprised when they do. After all, what do you expect from a company that markets their knives this way, then gives you only a one-year warranty?
Click to expand...

As you said most of the people who buy their knives aren't here on BF, we are a small percentage of knife users compared to the big picture.

Now they make good user knives for most people, like most companies they have different price ranges for different types of people.

Could they improve on certian things, sure they could and I hope they do in the future and time will tell if they do or not.

Personally I am a steel junky so AUS-8 really isn't high on my list, but it's still a good steel for the masses.
 
It's funny, I just received the catalog and went crazy circling my wants. The voyager series is among them. I love the tri-ad lock and I have no problem with Cold Steel's AUS8. It's one of the few stainless steels I can sharpen easily. It's up with 154cm in my book. I like the VG1 too, but AUS8 is not a deal breaker for me.
 
Planterz said:
I'm assuming the "downgrade" was for cost reasons. The thing is, Cold Steel doesn't market towards steel snobs. They market to people who want the knife they saw on youtube stab through a car door and chop up a pant leg filled with meat. The change in steel types means nothing to all but the most knowledgeable and picky of knife buyers (aka: us), and we make up a pretty small share of their market. Do you really think that Joe Douchebag shopping at the mall cares what steel the Espada uses? That he knows that it'd slice through XX% more layers of cardboard before going dull if it were made with some other type of steel that also means gibberish to him, because he saw a test by Soandso on Bladeforums? No. He saw it stab through the hood of a car on youtube, and he saw Mickey Roarke throw one at a dartboard in The Expendables. That's all he knows, and that's all he cares about. And if Cold Steel can improve their profit margin by a couple of bucks per knife by using a cheaper steel, don't act surprised when they do. After all, what do you expect from a company that markets their knives this way, then gives you only a one-year warranty?
Click to expand...

I highly doubt anything Cold Steel could do would impress knife snobs because they are a company [a business] and not a "custom" knife maker. I love the way "average Joe" is mentioned in these holier-then-thou comments. It sounds like Nancy Pelosi talking about the p-p-p-people. I remember when average Joe was an important person. He kept your business alive and was your neighbor and friend. Now he is the butt of jokes and snobbery.

And by the way, people that watch youtube videos laugh at people that "live on knife forums" and test their pretty expensive customs by taking theoretical camping trips! Lets face it, most snobs use their knives less in five years than many working class "average Joes" do in a day on the farm.

The truth is, with all the cameras out there, and year after year of snobs making fun of CS videos, you would think that more people would have made comparison videos showing their superior designs and breaking down [with proof] how their vast knowledge of steel composition makes their "steel diseur" better than Aus 8 or San Mai or SK5. Of course you can do a quick search on these very forums and find that when the CS knives were Carbon V, everyone wanted Aus 8. When they were SK5 everyone wanted Carbon V. Now that some are Aus 8, they want San Mai. When they get San Mai, then its too expensive (even though any other knife in San Mai would be 5 times more).

Most of these knife forum jocks get bored with their CS knives long before the factory edge is dull. They are just too plain, easy to sharpen, hold an edge and last too long for most and of course, they lack snob appeal. My guess is that more "users" are happily using their CS knives every day and chuckle at the 700 post threads hypothesizing about whether 1080 or 1095 steel is best. (that is best said with your pinky extended!) The truth is, these are the type of posts that drive people away from knife forums and make people stay away from custom knives. See it turns out that "knife snobs" are really the butt of the jokes from average Joe Douchbag shopping at the mall, or as they are sometimes called; most of the fricken planet...

Well I'm off to the mall..........
 
shortwinger said:
I highly doubt anything Cold Steel could do would impress knife snobs because they are a company [a business] and not a "custom" knife maker. I love the way "average Joe" is mentioned in these holier-then-thou comments. It sounds like Nancy Pelosi talking about the p-p-p-people. I remember when average Joe was an important person. He kept your business alive and was your neighbor and friend. Now he is the butt of jokes and snobbery.

And by the way, people that watch youtube videos laugh at people that "live on knife forums" and test their pretty expensive customs by taking theoretical camping trips! Lets face it, most snobs use their knives less in five years than many working class "average Joes" do in a day on the farm.

The truth is, with all the cameras out there, and year after year of snobs making fun of CS videos, you would think that more people would have made comparison videos showing their superior designs and breaking down [with proof] how their vast knowledge of steel composition makes their "steel diseur" better than Aus 8 or San Mai or SK5. Of course you can do a quick search on these very forums and find that when the CS knives were Carbon V, everyone wanted Aus 8. When they were SK5 everyone wanted Carbon V. Now that some are Aus 8, they want San Mai. When they get San Mai, then its too expensive (even though any other knife in San Mai would be 5 times more).

Most of these knife forum jocks get bored with their CS knives long before the factory edge is dull. They are just too plain, easy to sharpen, hold an edge and last too long for most and of course, they lack snob appeal. My guess is that more "users" are happily using their CS knives every day and chuckle at the 700 post threads hypothesizing about whether 1080 or 1095 steel is best. (that is best said with your pinky extended!) The truth is, these are the type of posts that drive people away from knife forums and make people stay away from custom knives. See it turns out that "knife snobs" are really the butt of the jokes from average Joe Douchbag shopping at the mall, or as they are sometimes called; most of the fricken planet...

Well I'm off to the mall..........
Click to expand...

The knife companies know full well who buys the most knives overall and that's who they cater to because they make more money that way. ;)

But they also know there are others who do like other things, better higher performing steels, designs etc so they make knives for them too.

That's why most companies have knives in different price ranges. ;)
 
Shortwinger, right on! I'll say this. I am impressed with my new gen Recon 1. I think I can say CS is moving in a direction that can be called innovative, yes I said it. Who else has an all G10 handled knife with one of the strongest locks in the business? For such a large knife it carries like something much lighter. When it really comes down to it people are going to diss CS no matter what. If they upgrade the steel they'll bitch about the price or say it's still not as good as XYZ steel.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top