Cold Steel's New German 4116 Krupp Steel

Discussion in 'Cold Steel Knives' started by eel, Jan 20, 2007.

  1. eel


    Nov 29, 2006
    This is the word on the new mystery steels from Cold Steel. I find it interesting how they ranked VG-1 higher than VG-10. VG-10 is top notch steel to have done with serrations. It stays sharp and outperforms just about every mass produced mid priced steel on the market. Fallkniven used VG-10 on most of their knives. I will have to try some of their VG-1 and see for myself:

    "VG-1 has been tested to be 10% better than AUS 8A. It holds an edge better with extreme sharpness and strength. VG-1 is not short for VG-10. VG-1 was tested against different grades of steel including Shiro 2, V-SP-2, 10A, 440C, VG-10 ATS 34. VG-1 showed the greatest performance increase in the most critical areas.

    4116 Krupp Stainless is fined grained, stainless steel made by ThyssenKrupp in Germany is used for hygienic applications and food processing.The balance of carbon and chromium content give it a high degree of corrosion resistance and impressive physical characteristics of strength and edge holding. Retention in actual cutting tests exceed blades made of the 420 and 440 series of stainless steels."

    And this is what CS said about the New PeaceKeepers:

    "I believe it will be Taiwan but haven't received written confirmation of this."

    I was more than a bit disappointed to hear they will be made in Taiwan. It's what I expected, the lack of a high polished blade finish was the main clue.
  2. knarfeng

    knarfeng senex morosus moderator Staff Member Super Mod Moderator

    Jul 30, 2006
    I hope they are paying their ad writers a pretty penny. Notice how carefully everything is worded.
    1) It doesn't actually say that VG1 is better than VG10. They merely say VG1 is best in "the most critical areas". OK if you define "critical areas" just right, it could be correct.

    (VG1 actually should be an improvement over AUS8. They are correct about that. Depends on the heat treat, of course.)

    2) They are careful not to say WHICH 420 and 440 alloys they tested. The stuff could be better than 420J and 440A and the statement would still be technically correct.

    Nothing is absolutely a lie. It is just worded so that it is easy to mis-interpret.

    Better be paying those writers the BIG bucks.
    bigsurbob likes this.
  3. Keith Montgomery

    Keith Montgomery

    May 9, 2000
    Cold Steel always make claims that the steels they use are better than anything else. 1.4116 steel has .45% to .55% carbon and is not a better steel than the 440 series. It is probably comparable to 420HC.
  4. cdf


    Nov 12, 2004
    Cold Steel = hype

    ChristophWilhelm likes this.
  5. hlee


    Dec 5, 2005
    It seems to me that the most revealing part of the description of Krup steel is its use in hygenic applications. Surgical stainless steel? The original hype steel.
  6. hardheart


    Sep 19, 2001
    I wouldn't mind the VG-1 at all, but the Krupp is just so low in carbon. I don't need a steel that stainless:p
  7. MDG


    Dec 6, 2006
    It may be that CS have found another manufacturer and they have said that these are the steels they use. So the CS marketing machine takes it in and reworks it into a positive. I may be wrong but it appears to me that 1.4116 is what some german makers call "solingen 420". I have seen some middle level kitchen cutlery made from it but it is not what I would expect for a knife that I would take bush.
  8. Sword and Shield

    Sword and Shield

    Apr 3, 2004
    There's no way VG1 is a better cutter than VG10. Easier to sharpen, but not a longer cutter.
  9. knarfeng

    knarfeng senex morosus moderator Staff Member Super Mod Moderator

    Jul 30, 2006
    The CS spiel does not say VG1 is a better cutter than VG10. It just says that in some unidentified attribute, VG1 was better than VG10. They want you to assume that the "key attribute" they measured is something that matters to us.
    bigsurbob likes this.
  10. hardheart


    Sep 19, 2001
    like knarfeng said, it's worded in their favor. Ease of sharpening might be a critical area, and edge retention not.
  11. digdeep


    Mar 19, 2005
    Approximately 15 years ago I bought several Cold Steel knives that were of excellent quality. I especially liked the Trailmaster and Twistmaster. Today I smell a stench from their adverts that makes me hesitate to buy any more.
  12. Rat Finkenstein

    Rat Finkenstein Gold Member Gold Member

    May 18, 2005
    "Most critical areas" Translation: "Our profit margin"

    Cold Steel is becoming progressively more full of excrement as the years go by.
  13. NickZac


    Mar 26, 2006

    Anyone in the business will tell you that Lynn Thompson is one helluva salesman. The DVDs prove that...they are EXCELLENT in promoting his items. No one has sold the idea of the 'Tanto' like Thompson.

    Critical areas are not well defined purposely. Obviously for a true combat knife, impact resistance would seem a logical critical area...but this is not said one way or another. It leaves the person to decide what the critical areas are...they simply say that it is better in those critical areas. Once you decide what those critical areas are, it is better. Excellent marketing it is to say the least.

    Cold Steel makes decent knives at a reasonable price and they make cool toys. They do not perform nearly as well as other makers. If you are expecting something of the utmost quality packing amazing performance, you are looking in the wrong area.

    They do not specify anything about their 'secrete recipes' which appears sketchy. No one knows exactly what Carbon V is and no one knows about how the knives are made nor the heat treat. A secrete it definitely is.
  14. Rat Finkenstein

    Rat Finkenstein Gold Member Gold Member

    May 18, 2005
    We all know what carbon V is, and it is not a secret.
    They don't say it, because they want unknowing consumers to believe that they actually manufacture their products. Cold Steel is a marketing and distribution company that has other companies produce their wares. Camillus made their "carbon V" blades, out of the same steel used in the Becker line of knives. The name "Carbon V" is just a cold steel marketing Gimmick.
  15. M Wadel

    M Wadel

    Sep 11, 2005

    amen aint that the truth.. love your avatar btw..

    anybody got specs of the new superduper steel from CS? :D like chemical composition? if its another surgical ss, there is no need really, it already exists, AEB-L and 13c26, and these have been tried and proven. i wil never buy a CS knife, i dont know but that company seems very unserious to me, bordeline darkops..
  16. dantzk8


    Nov 1, 2005
    Thanks Rat, "Most critical areas" didn 't mean anything to me.
    Would you please help me about the first sentence: "VG1 has been tested to be 10% better than AUS8A". What is "10% better"? I can't wait for the Noss4 expertise to know that!

  17. phatch


    Oct 3, 1998
    I'd guess that it's cheaper, cost being the most critical area to CS in all likelihood.

  18. knarfeng

    knarfeng senex morosus moderator Staff Member Super Mod Moderator

    Jul 30, 2006
    VG1 has a higher carbon content than AUS8. About 10% more carbon. Based on its composition, I would expect it to hold an edge on the order of AUS10 or 440C. Those steels are acknowledged to be a step up from AUS8. That's just based on the composition and does not take heat treat into account.

    I'm just saying that their statement that VG1 is an improvement over AUS8 is believable. Though I have problems with the rest of it.
  19. JayAndersson


    Nov 28, 2006
    ThyssenKrupps customer looks for more for low cost than anything else. Their overall quality strategy is "good enough to sell cheap".

    Fine grain grade.... if they are even remotle close to the microstructure of 13C26/AEB-L I for one will be VERY surprised. Which maker of surgical blades would consider ThyssenKrupp? No one in the civilized world I think?
  20. The Mastiff

    The Mastiff Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 21, 2006
    I'd bet Cold steel's "critical areas" are more accounting related than performance of the steel. I laughingly recall them stating how 8A was the best steel performance wise and outperformed ATS 34 and all the other then common use better performing steels for cutlery. Then there was the "400series" . How do they keep a straight face? Then SK-5 gets promoted to a high carbon steel. Very convient. BTW, SK5 is a good performer in my old carbon steel SOG Tigershark. That's what they used before they went to AUS 6. The old ones command a little premium. Leave it to cold steel to make a good steel smell bad. JL

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