Cold Steel's New German 4116 Krupp Steel

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Like I said knock CS all you want, I love my CS AK-47 and carry it everyday

A wave feature and a ultra-lock is greatness
 

Gator97

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Like I said knock CS all you want,...
There is a difference between knocking CS and providing more complete data about their materials. 4116 is just what it is, 1.4116 or X50CrMoV15 and everyone has that in their kitchen knives.
 

Broos

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The only knife testing I can think of where there are "performance increases" is sharpness testing. Any other testing should show performance decrease, and we want the knife that has the slowest rate of performance decrease through cutting, chopping, slicing, batoning, beating with a hammer, etc. For example, I can't think of how you could work "greatest performance increase" with edge retention testing, which is used to find which knife has the slowest rate of dulling (dulling = performance decline).

I would interpret "in the most critical areas" to mean the results from testing had to be limited to a particular (and unknown) range of the testing to achieve "the greatest performance increase".

So maybe the test was based on how sharp you could get them from sharpening pass #1 to pass #10? When the you know what hits the fan, you need to put a arm lopping edge on in a hurry.

I don't see them listed at the CATRA page as having a "sharpness life" test machine. But they do have a video camera, and that might even be better. ;)

And a plug for William Manchester's "The Arms of Krupp" a long read but a good history of the Krupps up to 1968. They had a long history of dealing with some unsavory characters.
 
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...And a plug for William Manchester's "The Arms of Krupp" a long read but a good history of the Krupps up to 1968. They had a long history of dealing with some unsavory characters.

Oh, I don't know. What would ever give you the idea that Krupp was a Nazi? ;)

Krupp.jpg
 

cramsey3006

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PUMA still uses Krupp in their version of the German Expedition Knife. Except that it's a $450 piece of it. They used to use in some other knives too. The only people that I ever heard complain about it never had one or never actually used a knife made out of it.
 
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PUMA still uses Krupp in their version of the German Expedition Knife. Except that it's a $450 piece of it. They used to use in some other knives too. The only people that I ever heard complain about it never had one or never actually used a knife made out of it.

And that pretty much sums it up.
 

Gator97

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PUMA still uses Krupp in their version of the German Expedition Knife. ... The only people that I ever heard complain about it never had one or never actually used a knife made out of it.

Considering that Krupp 4116 or its clones form other makers are used in VIctorinox, Wusthof, Henckels, Messermeister and bunch of other maker's kitchen knives, it's pretty hard to find people who never used a knife made out of it....
 
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Fixed: Finn bear, roach belly, canadian belt knife, Pendleton lite hunter
Folding: Kudu, Pocket Bushman

Every other blade they still use it on is in their kitchen knife block.
 

cramsey3006

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Considering that Krupp 4116 or its clones form other makers are used in VIctorinox, Wusthof, Henckels, Messermeister and bunch of other maker's kitchen knives, it's pretty hard to find people who never used a knife made out of it....

Do you or other people take your kitchen knives into the woods to use? For bushcraft uses? Batoning, feather sticks, fire making? Nah, I don't think so. That's kind of use I was referring to, since this is the wilderness/survival forum. :D
 
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I think Victorinox is pretty common in the woods.

I must be lost, I thought this was general knife discussion :)
 

Gator97

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Do you or other people take your kitchen knives into the woods to use? For bushcraft uses? Batoning, feather sticks, fire making? Nah, I don't think so. That's kind of use I was referring to, since this is the wilderness/survival forum. :D
0) This is general knife forum :D
1) I've seen quite a few people taking kitchen knives to the woods, simply because they planned to use it on food.
2) Considering what majority of the folks do with their kitchen knives including chopping bones and whacking lobsters and/or coconuts... Lots of bushcraft use doesn't really get that abusive. Hell, depending on the type of wood and section it can be a lot easier than bone whacking.
3) Given the variety of the kitchen knives, it's not that hard to get the idea about steel performance for various works.
4) Like hardheart said, victorinox is quite common anywhere.
5) For majority of cutting chores 4116 performance is very well known, and kitchen knives with their relatively thin(compared to tactical/survival etc) blades are more optimized for cutting. So, the only thing you get from those thick knives with various grinds is degraded cutting performance.

Well, if you feel you can find something new about that steel because it's from cold steel or anyone else, I have nothing against that.

My objection was to 4116 being something new in general, or new in knives, neither statement is true.
 

cramsey3006

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Yeah I know I'm the lost one, LOL. :eek:

Thinking one thing while typing another...

I didn't say anything about Victorinox because I didn't want to state the obvious. Of course, people LOVE them even though they use an "inferior" steel. It cracks me up when people rave about the newest super blade in the newest supersteel, then they alao still carry a SAK and talk about how good the blade is.

What I should say, I guess, it that if you have not used a particular steel in a particular knife for a particular use, how can you pass judgement on it?

No, it's not a new steel at all for knife use. Maybe a new steel for use in Cold Steel knives?
 

Gator97

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What I should say, I guess, it that if you have not used a particular steel in a particular knife for a particular use, how can you pass judgement on it?
Very easy, by using same steel in a similar geometry for similar cutting task. Let's face it, it's still cutting :)

Besides, as far as cutting goes kitchen knives are better suited for that than most of the tactical and survival knives.
 
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i wouldnt get a knife made from 4116 Krupp Stainless. check out nutnfancys review of the cs pocket bushman on youtube and you will see why. He snaps the blade clean in half batoning through a log with a knife cold steel describes as a hard use folder made from 4116 Krupp Stainless.
 
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Although that is probably not the steel's fault, just a crappy knife with a bad HT.
 
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420J2:
Carbon 0.15
Chromium 12-14
Manganese 1
Phosphorus 0.04
Silicon 1
Sulfur 0.03

German steel "Werkstoffnummer 14116" which i think is the steel cold steel talks about. but nothing new ... ;)

One can find this steel in some German quality knives, if the HT is right, it should be a decent steel.

Maybe i get some more information about this 4116 thing.

Carbon 0.55
Chromium 13.8
Manganese 1
Molybdenium 0.45-0.6
Silicon 1

Hope i could help you a bit. (i just saw the information is already in this thread and in other threads, sorry for off topic)
 
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cramsey3006

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I got two CS Roach Belly's and two of the CS Canadians in the mail today. 4 knives for $48, hey why not? The sheaths suck, that's no surprise. Just a crappy nylon pouch. The handles are ok dry, but I think that they'd be very slippery when wet. I'll fix that with some stippling or something. They feel good to the hand though. For around $12 each, they are absolutely the nicest knives I've ever seen in that price range. Yes, I hate to say it, they are prettier than a Mora for the price. Far better than the crap you see at the big box stores for the same price under different names, for sure.

Grinds on the blade were even and blade thickness is just about right for these knives, IMO. Polish was good too. They're actually a bit stiffer than I thought they would be. Hair popping sharp out of the box. I'll have to get some stuff to cut on and see how they do.
 

Gator97

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German steel "Werkstoffnummer 14116" which i think is the steel cold steel talks about. but nothing new ... ;)
Yes, that's the one, W-Nr 1.4116

Maybe i get some more information about this 4116 thing.

Carbon 0.55
Chromium 13.8
Manganese 1
Molybdenium 0.45-0.6
Silicon 1
Where did you get the spec if you don't mind? What i had from Krupp was slighty different Krupp 4116 steel composition.
 
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