Cold Steel's San Mai a Rip-Off

I have a Pendleton hunter and just got a Master hunter. The Pendleton is all VG-1 ; The MH with a VG-1 core. Either way I have an Edge of VG-1 which I find is a pretty good steel. I didn't pay a whole bunch extra for the MH either.
But.... I do see a lot of other CS designs where the San Mai steel IS way overpriced. These knives I would never purchase. I don't see why they didn't just stick with plain VG-1 on the Master hunter like they did with the Pendleton.
They should have made the SRK with SK-5 also , instead of San mai I might add. Some models they make I really like , others make me shake my head.
 
Cold Steel makes excellent knives, and they go where no other knife makers go in that they make large folders that other knife companies adamantly refuse to compete with. I like my 5-inch Voyager and Gunsite and just kind of laugh when Spyderco puts out a 4-inch knife and all the Spiders talk about how huge it is.

Regarding steel, there's no doubt that Spyderco uses premium steels, but there are many of us here who are not "mall ninjas" who carry and use Cold Steel Voyagers and who like them. Likewise CRKTs. Cold Steel, meanwhile, also concentrated on strong, durable knives like the Rajah, which has accompanied many hikers and campers. It also is the ideal knife for a bugout bag, something we've discussed elsewhere.

I'm not happy with some of their recent decisions, though I believe their Tri-Ad lock system is the best on the market. And though some people "chase steel," my Voyagers have very satisfactory edge holding capabilities, and even some of their 440A knives have had admirable edge retention (something that I haven't experienced in knives made of the same steel by other manufacturers).

Anyway, I'm no mall ninja and am an average user of knives. I'm very happy with my Cold Steel knives, though I appreciate the fine quality of better knives. I just don't feel the need to carry them. I have a small Spyderco Native that I've worn and used extensively, and I can't really tell that much of a difference between it and my 4-inch Voyager. In fact, the Native has never been as wickedly sharp as my Voyager. And when serrated blades are carried, edge retention is largely irrelevant.

Cold Steel is the only major manufacturer of decent knives to make 5- and 6-inch folders. It also is the only knife company to have engineered a new and innovative locking system (the Tri-Ad). It also subjected their knives to rigorous testing, despite the howls of objection (some of it deserved). But despite its flagrant sensationalism, one can't come away from their DVDs without a mixture of appreciation of the knives abilities and yes, a bit of revulsion. Despite the broo-ha of it all, seeing a knife put into a vice and bent to about 35 degrees is impressive. Then seeing weights applied to the handles, followed by vicious blows to the backs and blade bases -- well, it's something that other companies don't do.

I agree there's an element of Cold Steel that appeals to Mall Ninjas, but really, their money is as green as mine, but there are also aspects that appeal to folks like me, like, as I said, 5- and 6-inch knives, solid locks, strength and beauty. Again, there are people who appreciate fine Spyderco knives, but don't underestimate the CS fans here, most of whom are not Mall Ninjas or newbes.

CSRajahI_2.jpg


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I think the laminated thing is getting out of control these days. Unless its ZDP there is no need to laminate a folder. I love the look of a hamon and some steel really do benifit from lamination but I would rather have cold steel use a premium steel than a VG 1 laminate. Or if they are going for the laminate, how about CPM M4 or 3V? :D Hey I can dream can't I?

I never buy stainless fixed blades save for fallkniven's anyways. And even that is rare.
Given their MRSP for "San Mai", a laminate with CPM-3V or M4 would cost 3k. For a folder!
 
Outdoors Fanatic said:
I was about to pull the trigger on a San Mai Laredo Bowie... I thought VG-1 would be at least like very hard VG-10 (62+).
You're not the first to get confused between VG-1 and VG-10. Your quotation from the CS website is an excellent example of why the company has a seedy side to it. Yes, they checked all those better knife steels and guess what? The cheap steel won! Right. That's why the company has the reputation it does with many people.

Having said that, the Laredo Bowie is a nice knife and many people who own it love it. But it ain't VG-10. A blade that size made from VG-10 would cost a mint. That's why it's unlikely, barring a technological leap, that you'll see any 6-inch+ S30V or VG-10 knife blades.

But I imagine you would have been pis...er...upset had you bought the knife only to find out it wasn't what you expected.
 
You're not the first to get confused between VG-1 and VG-10. Your quotation from the CS website is an excellent example of why the company has a seedy side to it. Yes, they checked all those better knife steels and guess what? The cheap steel won! Right. That's why the company has the reputation it does with many people.

Having said that, the Laredo Bowie is a nice knife and many people who own it love it. But it ain't VG-10. A blade that size made from VG-10 would cost a mint. That's why it's unlikely, barring a technological leap, that you'll see any 6-inch+ S30V or VG-10 knife blades.

But I imagine you would have been pis...er...upset had you bought the knife only to find out it wasn't what you expected.
I knew since day one that whatever the heck VG-1 was, it was definitely not as good as the premium stuff that Spyderco or Fallkniven uses in their fine knives. And that's fine, I wasn't goint to pay the absurd MRSP anyway.

However, when you learn that they apply the very same heat treatment and hardness level on the POS steel they use on the "sandwiches", that's just pointless and downright misleading. I might as well invest my money on a Nigerian Banking scheme...

But thanks man, it looks like I'll be buying a Fallkniven or Bark River and make much better use of my limited budget;

Cheers.
 
Glad to see the fanboy morons are well represented. Did you have any reasoning to add, or just an unsupported opinion?


I would submit that spyderco fanboyism on here exceeds the same regarding cold steel by a fair amount. I also know quite a few guys in law enforcement and the military (including special forces) who carry cs pieces.

CS does have over the top advertising. They also have a wide range of very useful and unique pieces.
 
I would submit that spyderco fanboyism on here exceeds the same regarding cold steel by a fair amount. I also know quite a few guys in law enforcement and the military (including special forces) who carry cs pieces.

CS does have over the top advertising. They also have a wide range of very useful and unique pieces.


In this particular thread, we are not discussing over the top advertising. It is about FALSE advertising. Funny, your name suits well this whole San Mai case...
 
I would submit that spyderco fanboyism on here exceeds the same regarding cold steel by a fair amount. I also know quite a few guys in law enforcement and the military (including special forces) who carry cs pieces.

CS does have over the top advertising. They also have a wide range of very useful and unique pieces.

I agree. If I needed a knife just for occasional SD, the lower end steels wouldn't bother me. Cold Steel does make good knives for a certain type of user. And I wasn't saying that Cold Steel fans are all fanboys. But someone who says "quoted for dumbness" without any reasoning whatsoever is exactly the kind of idiotic fanboy that derails the discussion that a forum is intended for.
 
In this particular thread, we are not discussing over the top advertising. It is about FALSE advertising. Funny, your name suits well this whole San Mai case...

Reading the thread, thought the false advertising bit had been debunked pretty thoroughly.

Funny, I guess making untrue claims is only appropriate on here if one makes really expensive folders with fancy steel...
 
You're not the first to get confused between VG-1 and VG-10. Your quotation from the CS website is an excellent example of why the company has a seedy side to it. Yes, they checked all those better knife steels and guess what? The cheap steel won! Right. That's why the company has the reputation it does with many people.

Having said that, the Laredo Bowie is a nice knife and many people who own it love it. But it ain't VG-10. A blade that size made from VG-10 would cost a mint. That's why it's unlikely, barring a technological leap, that you'll see any 6-inch+ S30V or VG-10 knife blades.

But I imagine you would have been pis...er...upset had you bought the knife only to find out it wasn't what you expected.

So, have you actually compared the performance of VG1 to VG10 side by side? I have.

Ankerson and I have both done edge retention testing on VG1. In both sets of tests, VG1 held an an edge as well as VG10.

I measured the hardness of a Cold Steel VG1 Voyager at 59 HRC. That is the same hardness as I measured on several Spyderco VG10 blades.

I am a fanboy of no company. But I know what have tested and I know the results.

The reason CS has the reputation it does with so many people, including me, is because of its over-the-top advertising. Their advertising campaigns turn me off.
 
these threads often degenerate into.

SPYDERCO IS GREAT!!!! COLDSTEEL IS CRAP :jerkit:

NO COLDSTEEL IS GREAT!!! :jerkit:
.........................................................................................................
Cold steel Sells products some people are thrilled with it some are not.

arguing how great your favorite company or steel is... is pointless

Value is subjective, opinions are rampant, and facts are often lacking.
 
these threads often degenerate into.

SPYDERCO IS GREAT!!!! COLDSTEEL IS CRAP :jerkit:

NO COLDSTEEL IS GREAT!!! :jerkit:
.........................................................................................................
Cold steel Sells products some people are thrilled with it some are not.

arguing how great your favorite company or steel is... is pointless

Value is subjective, opinions are rampant, and facts are often lacking.

This is true....not sure which is more annoying though, the statement given above or the fact that spyderco gets brought up in every freaking thread!lol
 
Reading the thread, thought the false advertising bit had been debunked pretty thoroughly.

Funny, I guess making untrue claims is only appropriate on here if one makes really expensive folders with fancy steel...
Debunked? I read some cover up B.S story trying to justify the San Mai Shenanigans, that's all.

And care to name these untrustworthy brands with really expensive folders using fancy steels? Most U.S manufacturers with a stellar reputation around here, have several folders in their lines made using the highest-end materials for well under 200 bucks, or even under $100. Cold Steel, on the other hand, charges at least 350 dollars for their fancy folders made with bottom of the barrel steel. It's not even fair to compare...
 
Debunked? I read some cover up B.S story trying to justify the San Mai Shenanigans, that's all.

And care to name these untrustworthy brands with really expensive folders using fancy steels? Most U.S manufacturers with a stellar reputation around here, have several folders in their lines made using the highest-end materials for well under 200 bucks, or even under $100. Cold Steel, on the other hand, charges at least 350 dollars for their fancy folders made with bottom of the barrel steel. It's not even fair to compare...

I just find people who claim to have served in branch of the military that they didn't repugnant.
 
I bought one of their little K4 neckers in VG-1 on close-out and I use it a lot in the kitchen. Its looks like a miniature kitchen knife and its ground very thin just like a kitchen knife, so I use it in the kitchen! So far the blade has held up great, even though I've dinged it a couple of times. It holds an edge for a reasonable length of time and comes back easily enough. It aint S90V but its not junk either.
 
Debunked? I read some cover up B.S story trying to justify the San Mai Shenanigans, that's all.

And care to name these untrustworthy brands with really expensive folders using fancy steels? Most U.S manufacturers with a stellar reputation around here, have several folders in their lines made using the highest-end materials for well under 200 bucks, or even under $100. Cold Steel, on the other hand, charges at least 350 dollars for their fancy folders made with bottom of the barrel steel. It's not even fair to compare...

strange just checked out there website can't find a single folder currently for sell with san mai. if you are talking about there aus 8 I got a recon 1 for 30$ so...
 
That's even worse, they are selling el-crapo AUS-8 as if it was ZDP-189

http://www.coldsteel.com/espadaseries.html


San Mai are in their fixed blade lines:

http://www.coldsteel.com/laredobowie2.html

620 bucks, LOL!

The espada is the most pricey folder on the site.

and cold steels MSRPs are usually Fubar the products are often sold for much less.

I personally would never get a san mai blade, i prefer your basic steels.
then again i am never getting another spyderco, after I had the lock fail under normal use. all preferances.
 
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