Les Robertson
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 10, 1998
- Messages
- 3,565
What is something worth....Whatever someone will pay for it.
I have been giving pricing advise to makers for 20 years. I have had some listen and others (looking merely for confirmation) disregard my suggestions.
The only correlation between the custom knife market and the stock market is from the point of view of an investor putting together a portfolio. Doing so with custom knives allows the investor, in theory, to be diverse enough to make a buck no matter what the market conditions are.
Most knives for sale in the primary market are overpriced to begin with. So it should come as no surprise that the knives sell for a loss in the after market. I stress knives with value pricing both to the makers I work with and the clients I work with. Value pricing eliminates a lot of the devaluation that is found in the after market. Although, nothing can provide a remedy for those who need cash quick.
Jerry Fisk is the most sought after ABS MS in the world. Is it because his work is superior to every other maker out there? No. Is it because his knives are super cheap and provide an exceptional value in he primary market? No. Is it because his knives can be picked up for a fraction of the retail price in the after market? No.
What is then, why do Jerry's knives continue to go up in value? Because Jerry has for one thing taken the ABS out of his business equation. He was smart enough to see too many other makers fighting each other to try and use the ABS as their main marketing tool.
Now remember, this is an organization that goes to extreme lengths to disassociate itself from any aspect of helping the makers market themselves. The ABS is about nothing but education of knife makers. To the point that the ABS attorney has told makers they cannot put the ABS logo on their business cards! Collectors wonder why custom knives is in the state that it is. I Talked with a very prominent ABS MS who when asked the question why doesn't the ABS web site have a section for the JS Makers like it does for the MS makers? His response, I didn't know that was the case. Fair enough.
He is not on the board of directors. Ok then why don't the board of directors do something about this. After all the JS makers pay their dues, just like he MS makers. I was told on another forum that the reason the JS makers are not put on the web site has to do with there is not enough band width. How about that for a BS reason.
So Jerry understanding the limitations of this organization for the knife maker who is also a businessman (a rare commodity in custom knives). Took it upon himself to establish the "FISK" Brand. Jerry opened the doors for hundreds of MS and JS makers, by training them and helping them in any way he could. He went to numerous hammer-ins around the US. He was the guy who went to Brazil to establish that group of makers. Brand "FISK" is everywhere. Hammer-In's, Foreign Countries, Knife Shows, Teaching and Uncle Al's monthly meetings. Brand "FISK" then had the unmitigated gaul to put on his own show!!!! Who the hell does the think he is??? He is Brand "FISK".
Brand "FISK" is also without a doubt the most sought after active ABS Maker on planet Earth.
Why don't other makers do this....because it is hard and it is time consuming.
I met a Maker (introduced to him by Jerry Fisk) at the Spirit of Steel show several years ago. Great guy, excellent knife maker and his prices were more than fair. I ordered several knives. His knives sold very well. He won a Best OF at the Blade Show. The following year he won another Best Of award. Listening to others around him advising him to raise his prices...he did just that. To the point he was no longer providing value pricing. But he was hot collectors wanted his work. So he continued to sell knives and continued to raise prices.
Sadly a few years later almost without exception his knives languish on web sites and forums only being sold for a substantial loss. What happened?
I direct your attention to the "Product Life Cycle".
1) Introduction
2) Growth
3) Maturity
4) Decline
This particular maker experienced growth when his knives were value priced. His knives reach maturity when the collectors had bought all they wanted. His knives are now in decline as they cannot support the primary market price in the after market.
Results, dealers stop buying his knives, collectors start selling his knives at a huge loss. Those looking to buy his knives do a search of the forums. See that his knives do not hold their value in the after market. Opt for another makers work.
Who is responsible for this? Everyone. The maker for not understanding their position in the market and utilizing an appropriate pricing structure.
The makers fellow makers for encouraging them to raise their prices (The maker forgets that listing to other makers for pricing advise is probably not the best idea. This is your competitor). Come on how often does Chevy include Ford in the talks for developing a price of their new car? NEVER.
The collector for not doing their homework and buying a knife that is overpriced. Then rationalizing their poor decision making with the catch all defense..."I Buy What I Like".
The dealer for being a "dumb ass" and buying a knife when they knew better. Yes I will be in Peter's thread. I knew the knife was overpriced and without a sheath and I still bought it. This mistake was never repeated again with this maker.
Fortunately for most makers, most collectors don't really know what they are looking at. I always include in my seminars for collectors this phrase:
"Do your homework. By not doing so you are punishing good makers and giving false hope to bad makers".
I include this in my seminars to makers:
"Know your position in the market and price your knives accordingly. By doing so your knives will always be priced correctly".
Some listen...most don't.
For the collectors, tired of your knives losing money in the after market? Buy knives that don't.
For the makers, tired of your knives being "dumped at a loss" in the after market? Price them right to being with.
Simple in word, but apparently difficult in deed.
WWG
Giver of free advise that is worth every penny you pay for it!
I have been giving pricing advise to makers for 20 years. I have had some listen and others (looking merely for confirmation) disregard my suggestions.
The only correlation between the custom knife market and the stock market is from the point of view of an investor putting together a portfolio. Doing so with custom knives allows the investor, in theory, to be diverse enough to make a buck no matter what the market conditions are.
Most knives for sale in the primary market are overpriced to begin with. So it should come as no surprise that the knives sell for a loss in the after market. I stress knives with value pricing both to the makers I work with and the clients I work with. Value pricing eliminates a lot of the devaluation that is found in the after market. Although, nothing can provide a remedy for those who need cash quick.
Jerry Fisk is the most sought after ABS MS in the world. Is it because his work is superior to every other maker out there? No. Is it because his knives are super cheap and provide an exceptional value in he primary market? No. Is it because his knives can be picked up for a fraction of the retail price in the after market? No.
What is then, why do Jerry's knives continue to go up in value? Because Jerry has for one thing taken the ABS out of his business equation. He was smart enough to see too many other makers fighting each other to try and use the ABS as their main marketing tool.
Now remember, this is an organization that goes to extreme lengths to disassociate itself from any aspect of helping the makers market themselves. The ABS is about nothing but education of knife makers. To the point that the ABS attorney has told makers they cannot put the ABS logo on their business cards! Collectors wonder why custom knives is in the state that it is. I Talked with a very prominent ABS MS who when asked the question why doesn't the ABS web site have a section for the JS Makers like it does for the MS makers? His response, I didn't know that was the case. Fair enough.
He is not on the board of directors. Ok then why don't the board of directors do something about this. After all the JS makers pay their dues, just like he MS makers. I was told on another forum that the reason the JS makers are not put on the web site has to do with there is not enough band width. How about that for a BS reason.
So Jerry understanding the limitations of this organization for the knife maker who is also a businessman (a rare commodity in custom knives). Took it upon himself to establish the "FISK" Brand. Jerry opened the doors for hundreds of MS and JS makers, by training them and helping them in any way he could. He went to numerous hammer-ins around the US. He was the guy who went to Brazil to establish that group of makers. Brand "FISK" is everywhere. Hammer-In's, Foreign Countries, Knife Shows, Teaching and Uncle Al's monthly meetings. Brand "FISK" then had the unmitigated gaul to put on his own show!!!! Who the hell does the think he is??? He is Brand "FISK".
Brand "FISK" is also without a doubt the most sought after active ABS Maker on planet Earth.
Why don't other makers do this....because it is hard and it is time consuming.
I met a Maker (introduced to him by Jerry Fisk) at the Spirit of Steel show several years ago. Great guy, excellent knife maker and his prices were more than fair. I ordered several knives. His knives sold very well. He won a Best OF at the Blade Show. The following year he won another Best Of award. Listening to others around him advising him to raise his prices...he did just that. To the point he was no longer providing value pricing. But he was hot collectors wanted his work. So he continued to sell knives and continued to raise prices.
Sadly a few years later almost without exception his knives languish on web sites and forums only being sold for a substantial loss. What happened?
I direct your attention to the "Product Life Cycle".
1) Introduction
2) Growth
3) Maturity
4) Decline
This particular maker experienced growth when his knives were value priced. His knives reach maturity when the collectors had bought all they wanted. His knives are now in decline as they cannot support the primary market price in the after market.
Results, dealers stop buying his knives, collectors start selling his knives at a huge loss. Those looking to buy his knives do a search of the forums. See that his knives do not hold their value in the after market. Opt for another makers work.
Who is responsible for this? Everyone. The maker for not understanding their position in the market and utilizing an appropriate pricing structure.
The makers fellow makers for encouraging them to raise their prices (The maker forgets that listing to other makers for pricing advise is probably not the best idea. This is your competitor). Come on how often does Chevy include Ford in the talks for developing a price of their new car? NEVER.
The collector for not doing their homework and buying a knife that is overpriced. Then rationalizing their poor decision making with the catch all defense..."I Buy What I Like".
The dealer for being a "dumb ass" and buying a knife when they knew better. Yes I will be in Peter's thread. I knew the knife was overpriced and without a sheath and I still bought it. This mistake was never repeated again with this maker.
Fortunately for most makers, most collectors don't really know what they are looking at. I always include in my seminars for collectors this phrase:
"Do your homework. By not doing so you are punishing good makers and giving false hope to bad makers".
I include this in my seminars to makers:
"Know your position in the market and price your knives accordingly. By doing so your knives will always be priced correctly".
Some listen...most don't.
For the collectors, tired of your knives losing money in the after market? Buy knives that don't.
For the makers, tired of your knives being "dumped at a loss" in the after market? Price them right to being with.
Simple in word, but apparently difficult in deed.
WWG
Giver of free advise that is worth every penny you pay for it!
