Comparison: The Umnumzaan vs. The SnG vs. The XM-18

jjjeschke said:
I think peoples opinions and reviews are helpful. I love hinderers but i'd love them even more with out the secondary market prices. hard to really use a knife that cost twice the msrp. hey hinderer crew what about us little guys who have an average every day job to feed our family's and isn't it us the tax payers that pay salaries for l.e.o firefighter's ect,ect, My opinion is most these people buy them and resell them at a higher cost. how many of you crime fighters and firefighters actually use them everyday? rolex john is a great guy and even though he made his points they are only opinions and he shouldn't be threatened or banned for this. I today carry my hinderer as tomorrow and the rest of my life. best knife on the market and a very functional knife. the sharpest thing anyone can own is their mind!!!!!
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Very kind of you to say - thanks for the support.
 
Tetsujin 140.6 said:
I used to carry a benchmade (purchased directly from benchmade as part of their direct to LEO program, I should add) and I liked the knife, until one time when I needed it, it didn't open. It was an auto, and I have learned not to rely on more technology than is necessary in a knife. So, to answer your question directly, there are other knives that would probably work as well (and the Benchmad Triage is a fine knife)
but I like the peace of mind that comes from having a piece of equipment that I am confident will work as intended every time. Also, should the XM not work, it is easy enough to service in the field, unlke my Benchmade, which I could not service.

First responders need to have equipment that they can rely on to work all the time, the well being of others may depend upon it.
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Just playing devil's advocate here, but I'd like to point out that you can purchase two BM Triage knives for about half the cost of an XM. Certainly that level of redundancy would provide the sort of peace of mind you speak of, no?
 
Tetsujin 140.6 said:
I used to carry a benchmade (purchased directly from benchmade as part of their direct to LEO program, I should add) and I liked the knife, until one time when I needed it, it didn't open. It was an auto, and I have learned not to rely on more technology than is necessary in a knife. So, to answer your question directly, there are other knives that would probably work as well (and the Benchmad Triage is a fine knife)
but I like the peace of mind that comes from having a piece of equipment that I am confident will work as intended every time. Also, should the XM not work, it is easy enough to service in the field, unlke my Benchmade, which I could not service.

First responders need to have equipment that they can rely on to work all the time, the well being of others may depend upon it.
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I've never used any of the BM autos so I can't really comment on them, but I've never heard of one of their manual opening knives like the Triage failing to open. I'm not sure I've really ever heard of any manual opener not opening. Some being harder than others yes, but failing no. I understand where I think you're coming from that your bad experience with the BM auto sort of tarnished your opinion on their reliability for the brand in general and that's fine if its your opinion, but it would still seem to me that featurewise the Triage is a better knife for the job and I've never heard (or had) and issues with its reliability. Same with the Hinderer Gerber. I work in the ER and have 2 Triage's, a Hinderer Gerber and an Emerson SARC Rescue that I carry for work (not all at the same time :) ). The SARC is built like a tank but I don't carry it as much because it has a single blade. The hooks on the Gerber/Triage are like butter for cutting clothes off to expose injuries. I'm guessing that in the field you're more likely to cut a seatbelt than a pair of pants off though?

I say all this in part to try and understand your needs in the field and partially to suggest that the Triage might also be a good option. Do you generally always find the single blade sufficient? Are you ever worried about cutting the patient with it? Would a rescue hook be more useful if you didn't have a trust issue with it? I'd love to carry an XM at work but fear I would miss its secondary features.
 
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Rolex John said:
Just playing devil's advocate here, but I'd like to point out that you can purchase two BM Triage knives for about half the cost of an XM. Certainly that level of redundancy would provide the sort of peace of mind you speak of, no?
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I am not suggesting that the XM is the only or necessarily best tool for the job, it is simply one that I am comfortable using for now. The BM Triage is a fine knife, I am not knocking it in any way. As to the original theme of this thread, I also use and carry an umnumzaan, and think it also is an excellent knife (the knives that I carry can be viewed in my profile). In my opinion, both the XM and the umnum are excellent and versatile folding knives, I only posted in this thread to indicate that, in my opinion, there is value to the community when manufacturers provide direct sales of quality tools to first responders.

I do consider redundancy in terms of what I carry, but frankly belt and pocket space is at a premium, so do not carry two folding knifes. If I carry a second cutter, which is usually only while I am wearing a thigh holster, I carry a benchmade rescue hook or EMT sheers.
 
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Snareman said:
I work in the ER and have 2 Triage's, a Hinderer Gerber and an Emerson SARC Rescue that I carry for work (not all at the same time :) ). The hooks on the Gerber/Triage are like butter for cutting clothes off to expose injuries. I'm guessing that in the field you're more likely to cut a seatbelt than a pair of pants off though?

I say all this in part to try and understand your needs in the field and partially to suggest that the Triage might also be a good option. Do you generally always find the single blade sufficient? Are you ever worried about cutting the patient with it? Would a rescue hook be more useful if you didn't have a trust issue with it? I'd love to carry an XM at work but fear I would miss its secondary features.
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I agree that rescue hooks (or as I stated above) EMT sheers are the best for removing clothing or seatbelts. In my opinion, a straight bladed knife is the more versatile cutting tool. I can cut everything from ropes to seat belts, to airbags to my lunch with a straight bladed knife, but cannot easily cut my lunch with a rescue hook.
 
I don't think the XM-s are supposed to compete with the more specialized tools that you EMT's have. Just a rugged folder, if you need one. :)
 
cziv said:
I don't think the XM-s are supposed to compete with the more specialized tools that you EMT's have. Just a rugged folder, if you need one. :)
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Oh, no. I wasn't saying or thinking that at all. I was just thinking for the the intended first responder use a more specialized knife might be more better. Although it sounds like he has it covered by carrying a separate rescue hook.
 
Tetsujin 140.6 said:
I agree that rescue hooks (or as I stated above) EMT sheers are the best for removing clothing or seatbelts. In my opinion, a straight bladed knife is the more versatile cutting tool. I can cut everything from ropes to seat belts, to airbags to my lunch with a straight bladed knife, but cannot easily cut my lunch with a rescue hook.
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I've tried cutting my PB&J sandwich with the hook on my Triage and it sure was messy! :D
 
Rolex John said:
Just playing devil's advocate here, but I'd like to point out that you can purchase two BM Triage knives for about half the cost of an XM. Certainly that level of redundancy would provide the sort of peace of mind you speak of, no?
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Now my turn to play Devil's advocate. You overpaid for your Hinderers. The price of a Hinderer is 385 for a XM18 and 550 for an XM24. Those are published prices. If you pay more than that, you are paying for the convenience of getting it now rather than waiting. There are lots of opportunities to get Hinderers at MSRP. This fact should be taken into consideration when reviewing the knives and I don't feel that it was ever taken into consideration in any of your reviews or posts on this forum or others.
 
Capbyrd said:
Now my turn to play Devil's advocate. You overpaid for your Hinderers. The price of a Hinderer is 385 for a XM18 and 550 for an XM24. Those are published prices. If you pay more than that, you are paying for the convenience of getting it now rather than waiting. There are lots of opportunities to get Hinderers at MSRP. This fact should be taken into consideration when reviewing the knives and I don't feel that it was ever taken into consideration in any of your reviews or posts on this forum or others.
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Please show me where I can get a Hinderer at MSRP. I'd love to have one, but refuse to pay secondary market prices. I have never seen a dealer that has one in stock that is charging MSRP for it.
 
Hey, the guy said opportunities, not a sure thing. I guess you could become a 1st responder.
 
Chances at lotteries aren't as bad as you would think. And finding a show he is at isn't hard since they publicly discuss their schedule for the year.

They also sometimes randomly hold lotteries outside of shows and in that case, you have to know where to look.

Look, I'm not saying that they are readily available at MSRP but they are available. Why should Hinderer be held to a different standard than other custom knife manufacturers? They operate in much the same way, only selling at shows and through lotteries.


And Snareman, you are in Ohio. Rick does some training sessions at the ranch that have a lottery as well. And those are close to you. Just pay attention and you will see the opportunities.
 
Capbyrd said:
Chances at lotteries aren't as bad as you would think. And finding a show he is at isn't hard since they publicly discuss their schedule for the year.

They also sometimes randomly hold lotteries outside of shows and in that case, you have to know where to look.

Look, I'm not saying that they are readily available at MSRP but they are available. Why should Hinderer be held to a different standard than other custom knife manufacturers? They operate in much the same way, only selling at shows and through lotteries.


And Snareman, you are in Ohio. Rick does some training sessions at the ranch that have a lottery as well. And those are close to you. Just pay attention and you will see the opportunities.
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Yea, I've actually been at and will apparently be at some classes he is teaching and/or in. Real nice guy. He can certainly run his business any way he desires. Sell at knife shows or only to first responders - whatever he prefers. But he shouldn't come on here (in this thread Page 3, Post #57) and say that I can just go through one of his distributors because that simply isn't the case. None of them have them in stock and those that ever do often seem to sell them at secondary market prices because they can. I'll keep my eye out though.
 
Capbyrd said:
Now my turn to play Devil's advocate. You overpaid for your Hinderers. The price of a Hinderer is 385 for a XM18 and 550 for an XM24. Those are published prices. If you pay more than that, you are paying for the convenience of getting it now rather than waiting. There are lots of opportunities to get Hinderers at MSRP. This fact should be taken into consideration when reviewing the knives and I don't feel that it was ever taken into consideration in any of your reviews or posts on this forum or others.
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We can agreed to disagree that there are "lots" of opportunities. The only real opportunity to get one at MSRP is at a knife show which A) isn't guaranteed and B) has real costs associated with it...travel, hotel, food, not to mention time and effort. These added costs associated with acquiring a Hinderer at MSRP certainly plays into the secondary market pricing. And I also believe I've talked about this issue in at least one of my articles.

So, you can take on the risks and costs associated with buying one one at MSRP, or you can take on the risks and costs associated with buying one on the secondary market. It depends on many factors which will be more favorable for any individual, but the point being is that your supposition above doesn't really take into account the costs one can incur buying a Hinderer at a knife show.
 
Very cool, unbiased, informative review. I have an SMF right now, and am excited for my XM-18 to be on the way. I wonder where a Sebenza would stack up.
 
swimmerdude1127 said:
Very cool, unbiased, informative review. I have an SMF right now, and am excited for my XM-18 to be on the way. I wonder where a Sebenza would stack up.
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Thanks for the kind words. I have a double thumb stud Sebenza 21 - great knife. I didn't include it in this comparison because I don't consider it to be a tactical folder per se.
 
I have seen much more controversial reviews on this, and other forums, where the reviewer received very little negativity.
Why is it that Rolex John has been banned on at least 2 forums?


It is because he spams his review across many forums and sub-forums, trying to market his blog/website, instead of simply trying to share information.
It is not your reviews that are angering people, it is your attitude.


I am sorry you've received so much negativity and hate, but if you can't see why, and learn from that... :(
 
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