Comprehensive Steel Comparison Chart Attempt

What is the most important attribute in a steel?


  • Total voters
    90
I really don't mean to pee on anybody's Cheerios, but I have learned a ton from reading here. And bad info doesn't add to the place.

Like the recent "I don't know, but I think I read somewhere that the answer is X." stuff.

I want other people to continue to be able to learn from here. And it seems like no answer is better than a sketchy one.

And on that, I'm out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vba
I opened this discussion looking for criticism so I respect your opinion. however I think you've missed my point here, I'm trying to show a list of rankings which are relative, not absolute to compare one attribute of a knife steel at once. edge retention should not be compared directly to corrosion resistance or toughness because a score of 5 for one does not mean the same as a 5 for another. that's why I never claimed that one attribute was " Twice as important? Ten times?" than another. and my poll question was not which attribute is best, it was what do you feel is most important. I was curious what knife users value the most when using their knives.

This touches on another important idea when discussing anecdotal evidence. many times when I look though technical charts like for CATRA I see people saying that the tests are only so helpful because they don't represent real life usage. I actually agree with this idea, I love a scientifically valid study as much as the next guy but there is no substitute for actual feel. And what gives a better idea of the feel of something than somebodies first hand account of their experience? I think that my fast and loose sheet of opinion based numbers should be used as a rough comparison and as an "amazon review" like you said. It fills the gap where some purely scientific charts don't. It may be less accurate but I think that it could be more helpful for someone who has already chosen a particular knife and has to pick a steel from a few choices as an example.

I would add that a ranking of any kind that is 0 to 10 is very hard. There are going to be a lot of "collisions" within the data set that do not make sense and start petty arguments. Rank from 0 to 100 to open the field up. Over 3 to 5 years a list like that which is maintained may reflect reality.

Just keep up to date with all of the tests and test methods that make sense to pay attention too and it will be "good enough" but never perfect.
 
Sorry for the tangent, trying to learn. Is this "modulus to resistance" close to being the technical term for edge stability? The fine balance between strength and toughness that allows for thin edges and acute bevels? In practice I seem to understand edge stability but in theory I have never fully understood it beyond being a thin edge that wants to neither chip nor deform.

I've done some reading so I am going to try and give this a shot:

I think toughness is the integral (area under curve) of the stress strain curve from 0 to yield, the young's modulus (stiffness) is the derivative (slope) of the S-S curve before yield, and yield strength strength is the point where a material transitions from elastic to plastic deformation strain at a given stress.

Resilience is a property which compares yield strength and young's modulus (res.=YS^2/2*YM) to arrive at the integral under the curve algebraically. So I think that resilience is the same as toughness, just different ways to arrive at the same answer?
 
Hello everyone,

I'm a big research guy, I love hunting for data and comparing it to learn more about a subject. This has lead me to try to put together a comprehensive steel comparison chart. I have almost completed a Mechanical Engineering degree and I am a hobbyist knifemaker so this (and a lot of curiosity) are my only credentials for the numbers I've arrived at so far. The list has three main columns which detail the main attributes of knife steels on a scale from 1-10. There is also a "total" which just adds the values from that row, and three columns which add two of the three attributes so that you can find steels based on certain tasks.

For example if I want to see the best meat processing steel I might sort the list by the highest combo of edge retention and corrosion resistance.

There are three major problems with this list:
First, it is an amalgam of dozens of charts and graphs from manufacturers and knife users and anecdotal evidence. this means that the data is very fast and loose and comparing between companies and people always leads to differences in perception and representation.
Second, the values are on a scale from 1-10, when I first started the list this wasn't a big problem because there were only a few, relatively similar steels. Once it expanded though I ran into problems where steels that were only one point away from each other were actually 200%+ different in actual test numbers. for example the early list had AUS-8 as relatively highly corrosion resistant, then I added H-1 and it made the two look like they were similar in that aspect..they are not..So it is important to look at it as a relative comparison, not an absolute one; meaning that a move from 5 to 6 is not an 11% improvement, it just means that steel with a score of 6 is some amount better than a steel with a 5.
Third, the chart does not include HRC values, grind angles, or thickness behind the edge measurements because this information is almost never provided. So the numbers are a sort of average between multiple sources of comparison.

Finally, I am posting this for the sake of learning and improvement. If you have an issue with some number, than please provide a counter suggestion and evidence for why. Ideally I would like opinions from people who have the steels they are talking about. one final note, I do not think there is room for "favorite steels" in this discussion, there are so many reasons to love even lower performing steels so please only discuss steels in the mindset of data.

Final, final note. I would also like to start including price and availability data as a point of comparison so if you have information on this feel free to chime in. **this is category that I will be adding over the next few weeks using know constants like 1095 as baseline for price scores.**

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Y-NBpwjIIHoAc9gfauaqNkKXziJR4YU2qhcjV-PSCA/edit?usp=sharing
I applaud your heroic efforts . I don't think anyone will be harmed or misled by your chart . It's just one more resource and stimulus for further research and conversation .:cool::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
My vote went towards toughness. Edge retention would be a very close #2. I am willing to sacrifice some edge retention to have a tougher blade that will hold its edge without risking chipping or other kinds of damage.
 
I applaud your heroic efforts . I don't think anyone will be harmed or misled by your chart . It's just one more resource and stimulus for further research and conversation .:cool::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Hey thanks, That's how I hoped it would be looked at. :D

My vote went towards toughness. Edge retention would be a very close #2. I am willing to sacrifice some edge retention to have a tougher blade that will hold its edge without risking chipping or other kinds of damage.

I voted for those two as well, I think that there is some slack for corrosion because what good is a shiny piece of steel with no edge!
 
I've done some reading so I am going to try and give this a shot:

I think toughness is the integral (area under curve) of the stress strain curve from 0 to yield, the young's modulus (stiffness) is the derivative (slope) of the S-S curve before yield, and yield strength strength is the point where a material transitions from elastic to plastic deformation strain at a given stress.

Resilience is a property which compares yield strength and young's modulus (res.=YS^2/2*YM) to arrive at the integral under the curve algebraically. So I think that resilience is the same as toughness, just different ways to arrive at the same answer?
One other aspect I'd want to know is if the edge will chip or roll. Toughness doesnt really show this. Cause you can have tough steels that will chip instead of roll.

In any case people ask here all the time... What is the best steel. And we all say there is no best steel. It all depends. When you have a chart that shows 11s people think that must be the best, get it and then have a huge hard time with it because of whatever reason. Too hard to sharpen, chipping, needed higher priced diamond sharpeners etc.

Some people just want Aus8 or 1095 buy the chart shows its not great, so they would never choose it.

Taking all these data points and then ranking them without info along with it just kinda doesn't really show the full story.
 
strength is just a description of the stress-strain relationship in materials, you calculate toughness from this relationship and hardness is usually linearly positive with it as well.

Mo2, Thank you for pointing out my embarrassing double listings and same-alloy discrepancies.

Elastic modulus is the "description of the stress-strain relationship in materials", not strength.

Source: Mechanical engineer
 
I've done some reading so I am going to try and give this a shot:

I think toughness is the integral (area under curve) of the stress strain curve from 0 to yield, the young's modulus (stiffness) is the derivative (slope) of the S-S curve before yield, and yield strength strength is the point where a material transitions from elastic to plastic deformation strain at a given stress.

Resilience is a property which compares yield strength and young's modulus (res.=YS^2/2*YM) to arrive at the integral under the curve algebraically. So I think that resilience is the same as toughness, just different ways to arrive at the same answer?

Toughness is the integral up to the point of fracture, not to yield. Resilience is the integral up to the yield point.
 
Elastic modulus is the "description of the stress-strain relationship in materials", not strength.

Source: Mechanical engineer

ahh gotchya, I worded that poorly, I mean that strength is how we quantify many properties (tensile, compression, shear, bending ect.) and how they relate to stress-strain measurements.

Toughness is the integral up to the point of fracture, not to yield. Resilience is the integral up to the yield point.

How do "Tensile toughness" measure from zero to yield, and "Modulus of Toughness" measured from zero to fracture differ in practice? I'm trying to understand the relationships of all of these units as best I can.
I'm
 
Beating a bunch of stuff into pieces requires a certain kind of long piece of metal. I mean, let's say you have a couple of old crates and a big wooden door and an old dishwasher that won't fit into the dumpster, and you need to break them down to fit. The optimal properties of your "big-ass smashing hacker," or BASH, are going to be a lot different than a skinning knife. So many kinds of blade! :'D This is why we all need endless numbers of blades forever and always.
 
In any case people ask here all the time... What is the best steel. And we all say there is no best steel. It all depends. When you have a chart that shows 11s people think that must be the best, get it and then have a huge hard time with it because of whatever reason. Too hard to sharpen, chipping, needed higher priced diamond sharpeners etc.

Some people just want Aus8 or 1095 buy the chart shows its not great, so they would never choose it.

Taking all these data points and then ranking them without info along with it just kinda doesn't really show the full story.

T Tommy-Chi suggested a 0-100 scale could help clarify the ranking. I have also since changed a bunch of numbers after reviewing some steels per user suggestions and removed the 11's.

Do you think that adding in scores for price/availability and maybe sharpen-ability would help clarify that 1095 for example is not a bad steel just because M390 scores much higher?
 
Hey thanks, That's how I hoped it would be looked at. :D



I voted for those two as well, I think that there is some slack for corrosion because what good is a shiny piece of steel with no edge!

Exactly!!! I think a little rust or patina on a user blade gives it character.
 
You left out strength.
strength is just a description of the stress-strain relationship in materials, you calculate toughness from this relationship and hardness is usually linearly positive with it as well.
Well, there's a problem. We don't agree on the definitions of terms mentioned, and likely there's plenty others who will not agree with either of our definitions.
Strength to me, is a separate property. A tough steel with little strength makes a poor blade.
I try to keep it simple since I'm not a metallurgist, so to me, tough is resistance to fracture (chip/crack) but allows plastic deformation, strength is resistance to plastic deformation (rolling the edge) but allows fracture.
The combination of the two make up edge stability, imo.
Edge retention will be influenced by material being cut, how it's cut (chop,slice,push), edge stability, carbide type and amount.

I have a preferred balance of all the above, according to my use, and know which steels have performed best for me. Others will prefer a different balance to match their use.
 
T Tommy-Chi suggested a 0-100 scale could help clarify the ranking. I have also since changed a bunch of numbers after reviewing some steels per user suggestions and removed the 11's.

Do you think that adding in scores for price/availability and maybe sharpen-ability would help clarify that 1095 for example is not a bad steel just because M390 scores much higher?

The more data, the better. Include the following and Ankerson's test results too.


"Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors" on YouTube is from Australia (https://www.patreon.com/posts/worksharp-steel-16430576)
(https://www.youtube.com/user/CedricAda)


Standard worksharp edge test (20 degrees micro convex for most tests. 17 degree edges is typical for UNLEASHED tests) unless otherwise noted. The test counts the number of cuts to very abrasive 1 inch thick sisal rope. UNLEASHED TO THE MAXX, Tormek 12 degree edge is not for everyone. The steel edge will roll.


http://knifenews.com/just-how-bad-is-budget-blade-steel/

Pete chooses edge retention as the key criteria to measure folding knife steel. “I want the fine slicing to last as long as possible,” he says. His cut tests, performed using a standardized edge bevel, cutting medium, and method, measure this characteristic, end when the knife can no longer cut printer paper. The testing medium is abrasive sisal rope, and Pete readily admits that this is a harder cut than most. But he finds that steels which fail to make 60-70 cuts in his testing translate to poor EDC options. “Knives that land below the 60 mark generally frustrate me when I carry them extensively as a daily user,” he says.

This metric rules out the standard budget steels on the market today: heat treat plays an important role in the performance of any steel, but in testing, Pete has found that AUS-8, 8Cr13MoV, and 440C all fail to meet the 60 cut mark. To put that in perspective, a modern super steel like CTS-XHP gets all the way to 242 cuts on Pete’s test. “A lot of marketing materials still claim that AUS-8 and 8Cr13Mov are high carbon steels with superior edge retention. This just isn’t true, and hasn’t been for a long time,” Pete says. Knives with these steels are far from unusable, but Pete believes the time has come for makers to offer better options – even at lower price points. “I just want a steel in my lower cost knives which holds a little longer than what’s widely used.”




THE FOLLOWING NEED TO BE PLACED IN THE CHART BELOW:
Vanax Superclean(1.55% Nitrogen/3.50% Vanadium Steel)(17deg 600gr Coarse/Toothy Finish Edge), 550 - Shannon Labs Knife 60HRC

Vanax Superclean(1.55% Nitrogen/3.50% Vanadium Steel)(20deg Worksharp Edge), 300 - Shannon Labs Knife 60HRC

Vanax Superclean(1.55% Nitrogen/3.50% Vanadium Steel)(17deg KME Mirror Polished Edge), 680 - Shannon Labs Knife 60HRC

Z Finit (LC200N)(0.50% Nitrogen Steel)(20deg Worksharp Edge), 230 - Shannon Labs Knife 60HRC

Z Finit (LC200N)(0.50% Nitrogen Steel)(17deg 600gr Coarse/Toothy Finish Edge), 390 - Shannon Labs Knife 60HRC

Z Finit (LC200N)(0.50% Nitrogen Steel)(17deg KME Mirror Polish Edge), 525 - Shannon Labs Knife 60HRC





KEY
Steel(Special), # of cuts knife #1 - Manufacturer #1; # of cuts knife #2 - Manufacturer #2

CPM REX 121(UNLEASHED TO THE MAXX - 13dg 3000 grit edge), 1300+ - Creely Knives


CPM REX 121(UNLEASHED - 17dg 600 grit Lansky edge), 925 to 950 - Creely Knives

M390(UNLEASHED TO THE MAXXX, 13deg/12deg per side), 550/810 - Steel Will

Maxamet(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge toothy), 810 - Spyderco Manix 2

M4(UNLEASHED - 15deg edge, 600 grit KME toothy/coarse edge), 700 - Spyderco Mantra

CTS-XHP(UNLEASHED TO THE MAXX - 12DEG/SIDE, 1000 grit finish), 600 - Cold Steel American Lawman

Maxamet, 563 - Spyderco Manix 2, 20 degree edge

LC200N(UNLEASHED - 16deg edge, 160,000 grit KME polished edge), 550 - Spyderco Slysz Spydiechef

CPM 10V(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge toothy), 550 - Spyderco Fahrid K2
S110V (UNLEASHED - 17dg edge) 500 - Spyderco Para 3
M4(UNLEASHED - 15deg edge, 160,000 grit KME polished edge), 500 - Spyderco Mantra

CPM M4(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 489 - Spyderco
K390(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 480 - Spyderco
ZDP 189 (UNLEASHED - 17deg edge), 480 - Spyderco Dragonfly 2
CPM 4V, 475 - Bark River Knives, Kephart 5
S90V(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 440 - Benchmade Altitude
M390(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 440 - Steel Will Cutjack

LC200N(UNLEASHED - 16deg edge, 600 grit KME toothy/coarse edge), 430 - Spyderco Slysz Spydiechef

M390(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 425 - REPLACEMENT Steel Will Modus
HAP40(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 415 - Spyderco Dragonfly 2
N695(UNLEASHED TO THE MAXX - 12DEG/SIDE), 410 - "Cudeman MT-5"

CPM 10V, 389 - Spyderco Fahrid K2
ZDP 189 (Factory Edge), 380 - Spyderco Dragonfly 2
Cru Wear(Polished Edge), 375 - Creely Knives
CTS-XHP (UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 370 - Cold Steel American Lawman

CPM 20CV, 351 - Benchmade Griptillian 555-1
Cru Wear(UNLEASHED - 17dg toothy edge 600 grit), 350 - Creely Knives
VG10(UNLEASHED TO THE MAXX - 12DEG/SIDE), 340 - Kizer V3
ZDP189, 336 - Spyderco Endura

M390, 334 - Lionsteel TRE; 400 cuts at 20 degrees on mirror polished edge - WE Knives 620j

S30VUNLEASHED - 16deg edge, 160,000 grit KME polished/mirror edge), 330 - Benchmade 940

CTS 204P, 321 - Spyderco Southard
ELMAX (Unleashed), 320 - Microtec DOC (20 degree mirror polished edge)

HAP40, 300 - Spyderco Dragonfly 2
CPM S110V, 295 - Spyderco Paramilitary 2; 281 - Spyderco Manix 2
S35VN(UNLEASHED - 17dg), 295 - Cold Steel Recon 1
SGPS, 291- Fallkniven U2

BOS S30V(UNLEASHED - 17dg Tormec 1000 grit), 290 - Bucks Paul BOS Heat Treat, Vantage Pro Mini

3V(UNLEASHED - 17deg edge, 160,000 grit KME polished edge), 290 - Survive Knives

CTS 40CP, 285 - Strider SNG
CPM M4, 280 - Benchmade Contego; 224 - Spyderco Mantra
CPM S90V, 278 - Spyderco Native 5

S30V(UNLEASHED - 16deg edge, 600 grit KME toothy/coarse edge), 275 - Benchmade 940

S30V (UNLEASHED), 260 - 17DPS Polished Edge on Spyderco Sage


K390, 242 - Spyderco Police 4
CTS XHP, 242 - Cold Steel Broken Skull

3V(UNLEASHED - 17deg edge, 600 grit KME toothy/coarse edge), 240 - Survive Knives

ELMAX, 236 - Zero Tolerance 0562
LC200N, 226 - Spyderco Spydiechef
Vanadis 4, 225 - Zero Tolerance 0180 (???? 4V?)
S30V(UNLEASHED - 17dg Tormec 1000 grit), 220 - Benchmade 940
14c28n(UNLEASHED TO THE MAXX, Tormek 12 degree edge), 215 - Ruike P801SV

CPM 3V, 209 - Cold Steel Master Hunter; 198, Bark River Bravo 1 LT

CPM S35VN, 198 - Kizer Gemini; 194, ZT0220; 187 - Reeve Sebenza
3V, 195 (20 Degree edge) - GSO 4.7
A2, 191 - Bark River JX6 (BRK does A2 right)


RWL34(RHC 59), 186 - Foolhardy Knives
S30V, 185 - Leatherman Charge TTI
S35VN(Factory Edge), 180 - Cold Steel Recon 1

Laminated CoS, 176 - Fallkniven PC
CPM S30V, 175 - Benchmade 940; 190 - Spyderco Sage

1095(UNLEASHED TO THE MAXX, Tormek 12 degree edge), 150 - Farm and Field knife, 58 to 59HRC.
154CM, 150 - Leatherman Charge Plus
1.4116(4116)(UNLEASHED TO THE MAXX - 13DEG/SIDE), 140 - Ontario Wraith

Aogami Blue Steel(UNLEASHED 14 degree edge), 140 - Higo No Kami; 210 - Higo No Kami

8cr13mov (UNLEASHED TO THE MAXX - Tormek 12 degree edge), 135 - Kershaw, Atmos by Sincovitch. Edge rolled.

NIOLOX, 135 - Lionsteel T5


154CM, 124 - Leatherman Skeletool CX
D2, 120 - Ontario Rat 1 (Ontario does D2 right)


VG10, 115 - 17 degree polished edges, Spyderco Delica
CTS BD1, 112 - Cold Steel Voyager
CPM S35VN, 109 to 113 - ZT 0909 (TWO TESTS)
BDZ1(UNLEASHED), 111 - Gerber Strongarm


01, 109 - Tindall Knives Sawtooth Hunter
AEB L, 108 - DB Blades Custom Knife
Sleipner, 105 - Lionsteel SR11
14c28n, 105 - 17 degree polished edges, ? unknown knife


N695, 100 - "Cudeman MT-5"
80CRv2, 100 - Terava Jaakari puukko
Infi, 90 - Busse
X12MF, 90 - Kizlyar Fileen
14c28n, 88 - Mora Garbera
1095 Cro Van, 87 - Ka Bar BK7 (better than std 1095)
N690co 87 - Spyderco Pingo
12C27, 85 - Greystone Custom Knife
3V(Factory Edge), 85 - GSO 4.7
VG10c 83 - Kizer Dukes; 75 - Spyderco Delica; 74 - Fallkniven F1
Ceramic, 80 - Savannah, Kitchen Knife
L6c 80 - Svord Peasant
420HC (UNLEASHED), 80 - Gerber Strongarm


440C 77 - Lionsteel Mini
BDZ1, 75 - Gerber Strongarm
440C, 75 Kizlyar Hero; 70 - Kizlyar Ute
1095, 75 - ESEE 4; 69 - SCHRADE 42D
VG1, 73 - Cold Steel SRK
9cr18mov, 72 - Freewolf Knife
14c28n, 71 - Real Steel E571
Case Chrome Vanadium, 70 to 77


D2, 67/70 - Viper Keeper
4116, 67 - Cold Steel Bushman
BOS 420HC, 67 - Buck vantage select
C75, 66 - Opinel
Case Tru Sharp, 60 to 65
AUS8, 60 - Al Mar Facon; 58 - Ontario Rat 1; 52 - Cold Steel Kobun


5160, 59 - Ontario Bushcraft Field
8cr14mov, 56 - Tonife Luminescence
12c27mod, 55 - Opinel
AN58, 53 - Nieto Pegaso
440c, 53 - Ganzo Gsomething
440B, 50 - CutCo KA-BAR/Becker
420HC, 50 - Gerber Strongarm
M390, 50 to 100 cuts(5 complete tests), Steel Will Modus (BOGUS KNIFE STEEL)


420hc, 44 to 60 - Leatherman Surge; 48 - Gerber Strongarm
8cr13mov, 48 - CRKT NOMA; 39 - CRKT Swindle
420 J2, 40 - Buck 311
440A, 38 - Becker Remora
5cr15mov, 37 - Gerber Index
Victorinox, 36 - Explorer
7cr13Mov, 35 - Bear Grylls Knife
Cast Iron, 20 - Amazon.com Cast Iron Kitchen Knife
???, 9 - Z HUNTER
???, 4 to 6 - Shit internet knife
???, 3 - Butter Knife
 
HARDNESS / EDGE RETENTION


Hardness and strength are related. Hardness is the resistance to indentation like from a hardness test. Strength is generally measured in a specific direction, such as tension, compression or shear. Higher strength generally reults in higher hardness, but not always.

Wear resistance is one component of edge holding. Edges either roll, wear, or break. High hardness prevents rolling, high wear resistance prevents wear, and high ductility and toughness prevent breaking. Its difficult to get very high ratings in all 3, so we have to decide which is more important for the application.

Adhesive wear occurs at the high local pressures involved in cutting, typically when cutting metal, often at high speed, and thus high temperature. The temperature and pressure are sufficient to weld a bit of the workpiece to the tool bit, and then break a piece out of the bit or edge. Adhesive wear is typically not a problem for hand held knives.

Wear is a form of damage, just as cracking and chipping. Increased hardness and strength also increase wear resistance, though steel alloy chemistry is more effective.

This is a measure of edge holding ability, which, is, in many ways a steel’s tendency to not roll and edge or go dull. Hardness usually comes at the cost of a tendency to chip, that is hard steels tend to chip instead of roll.

Well Below Average: 1095 (as usually treated), 420HC, 7Cr13MoV

Below Average: VG-10, AUS8, 440C, 8Cr13MoV

Average: S35VN, S30V

Above Average: M390/20CV/CTS-204p, 3V, CTS-XHP

Well Above Average: ZDP-189, Maxamet, REX 121



TOUGHNESS

This is a measure of a steel’s ability to resist chipping. Tough steels will dull or roll an edge before they chip.

Well Below Average: Ceramic

Below Average: S30V, VG-10

Average: S35VN, AUS 8

Above Average: 1095 (as usually treated), AEB-L, CTS-XHP

Well Above Average: INFI, 3V



CORROSION RESISTANCE

This is a steel’s ability to resist coloration and pitting due to exposure to elements such as water, salt water, sweat, acidic or basic foods, and the like.

Well Below Average: Maxamet

Below Average: ZDP-189, 3V, 8Cr13MoV

Average: VG-10

Above Average: 420HC, 440C, M390/CTS-204p/20CV

Well Above Average: LN 200C, H1



SHARPENABILITY

This is not so much a working property of steel, but how ease the steel is to maintain. Ideally, you will get a steel that comes back to a razor edge with stropping after to moderate use. A full sharpening should correct any minor edge defects.

Well Below Average: ZDP-189, S30V

Below Average: 3V, VG-10

Average: 8Cr13MoV, 440C, S35VN

Above Average: M390/CTS-204p/20CV, CTS-XHP

Well Above Average: INFI, 1095 (as usually treated)
 
Back
Top