Concerns About Survive! Business and Misleading Lead Time Estimates

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mtangent said:
Not really the same. Percentages are very different to total numbers. The 2 raw figures I mentioned would allow you to work out if they are catching up, or getting further behind.
Have you received your 4.7?
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They had previously stated, on numerous occasions that they wouldn't reveal the total number of orders of each model, nor did I expect them to, that is their right to keep that information private. My question was to try and get some sort of response as to what the percentages might be at that point of time. That obviously did not receive an answer and you can speculate as to why, I have my own thoughts regarding that.

Yes I did receive my 4.7, see my post #435.
 
Revolverrodger said:
I have followed survive! Since the company started
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Good for you. But so what?

Revolverrodger said:
Guy has always worked hard to bring us the best knives he could
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Nobody's debating that. Doesn't excuse anything.

Revolverrodger said:
His knives have always sold out very fast
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Irrelevant.


Revolverrodger said:
He looks like a honest fellow, more of a craftsman than a large scale manufacturer... and that explains the delays
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No. no It doesn't. Suggesting that's true insults all of the craftsmen I know who wouldn't dream of delivering late. Being a skilled craftsman is one thing. Being a respectable businessperson is another. Guy is failing on the latter, through repeated and wanton failure to deliver when he says he will. Inexcusable at any scale of quality or quantity, In my opinion.

Revolverrodger said:
You can't rush good quality
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Sure you can. Charge an appropriately high price for it, and GET IT DONE. When you say you will.

Revolverrodger said:
Same thing with Busse and their 'two weeks'
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There's a reason I have little interest in dealing with Busse either. But they do seem to ship faster, and more reliably. For what that's worth (not much).
 
Revolverrodger said:
The man is passionate about making the best knives at a fair price
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I haven't read the whole thread but I don't think many people dispute that Survive's quality / cost position is a good one. The knives aren't the best and they aren't the least expensive, but they are a very good value.

This thread is more focused on lead times and Survive's inability to accurately state them. For me it is easy: you either deliver when you state you will or you don't. It doesn't matter to me why you don't. It might be because you have a great eye for defects and you reject large numbers of finished goods. That is great and I admire it but if you can't consider that before quoting a lead time I can't be happy with you. It might be because you are just one person and you can only work so much, but again if you can't factor that in when you quote, you are missing a critical part of your relationship with your customers.

Given how long this has gone on it has to be that the continuing inaccurate promises are either willful, or wildly ignorant of the reality of the situation.
 
Timi... people are attracted to survive because of thevquality and price
Charging too much would defeat this

Not many companies offer this level of quality at a good price with express delivery... actually none come to mind
 
Revolverrodger said:
Timi... people are attracted to survive because of thevquality and price
Charging too much would defeat this

Not many companies offer this level of quality at a good price with express delivery... actually none come to mind
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But certainly many of the custom makers do, and for a near or less expensive investment.
 
Revolverrodger said:
Timi... people are attracted to survive because of thevquality and price
Charging too much would defeat this

Not many companies offer this level of quality at a good price with express delivery... actually none come to mind
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Not charging enough is going to defeat the company, if that's what's preventing them from speeding things up.

Never mind the ongoing mismatch between words and actions from the company.

Maybe you can excuse a repeated failure to keep their word, but not many can who value honesty.
 
It's a basic tenet of business management that if your demand is swamping your ability to maintain supply, you're not charging enough. Like business 101 stuff.
 
I've often heard the following saying about businesses and services,

and it seems to apply to Survive! especially well:

"You've got 3 options, but you can only pick 2:

1. Quick
2. Cheap
3. Well made

...choose wisely!" ;)
 
Revolverrodger said:
Yes that's your opinion... and you know what they say about opinions
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Shrug. Yep. Seems like not a terribly controversial opinion though, among most.

Sounds like you're saying that your tolerance for dishonesty (or incompetence, take your pick) can be bought at a price, and that said price is a $50-100 discount relative to other high-quality knives.
 
PeteyTwoPointOne said:
I've often heard the following saying about businesses and services,

and it seems to apply to Survive! especially well:

"You've got 3 options, but you can only pick 2:

1. Quick
2. Cheap
3. Well made

...choose wisely!" ;)
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SKs are not "cheap". They are a production knife at $250+. Benchmade, Fällkniven, Spyerdoco, Esee make great production survival knives that will outlast you and $cheaper. And if you want to talk "$cheap" look at a cold steel 3V knife hunter model for 94$ So no, contrary to the belief, SK are not $Cheap. I know a lot of people/hunters/survivalists that can't dream of affording a $250 for a knife. Now, I do think SK ARE fair priced given the fit-finish.

But regardless of how many of the three they nail, the thread is about concerns of misleading lead times. Which is a specific topic.
 
mlmcasual said:
regardless of how many of the three they nail, the thread is about concerns of misleading lead times. Which is a specific topic.
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Right? Exactly.

So much "but... but... but..." — but when a business continues to say one thing and do another, that is a standalone point of complaint, and conflating it with every other oblique virtue of the business is pointless.
 
winger51 said:
They had previously stated, on numerous occasions that they wouldn't reveal the total number of orders of each model, nor did I expect them to, that is their right to keep that information private. My question was to try and get some sort of response as to what the percentages might be at that point of time. That obviously did not receive an answer and you can speculate as to why, I have my own thoughts regarding that.

Yes I did receive my 4.7, see my post #435.
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I can understand why they want some privacy, although they are the ones who decided to call their customers "investors." Investors usually receive such information each AGM.
My suggestion involves nothing to do with numbers of each model, just gross output, in numbers of finished product. If numbers were increasing, much of the noise would stop.
 
Revolverrodger said:
It's pretty simple:
if you are concerned: ask for a refund, buy something else
if not: wait

This thread is mostly whining by people who don't want to cancel and don't want to wait.
Grow up son.
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You keep making this comment. Have you any idea how damaging to a business it would be if enough people actually do that?
Unsecured creditors don't get much back in a bankruptcy.
The poor comments you are trying to stop would go off the scale.
 
timichango said:
Right? Exactly.

So much "but... but... but..." — but when a business continues to say one thing and do another, that is a standalone point of complaint, and conflating it with every other oblique virtue of the business is pointless.
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And they continue to do it over and over again. I posted my comments based on the "couple months" in the original 2.7 sales thread at the end of July. I see that many others here in this thread read the same thing I did and bought accordingly. And I'm seeing the same issue with the other sales on Monday's and 2nds, etc.

I'll ask the question that no one wants to ask, even though it seems that many have danced around it. When does the constant misinformation about delivery dates for ANY S!K knife become what it truly is, which is a LIE.

I cannot be convinced that anyone at S!K is so removed from the past two years of this, and the recent comments in this thread alone, that they are so incompetent as to give anyone any dates when they KNOW it won't happen.

How many customers have called or emailed and been given ship dates and yet it was missed multiple times? Same for emails. How many customers have bought knives in a pre-sale where they were given a ship time of a couple months and yet we're in the 4th month of waiting? How many bought the number of knives in the 5-15 days sales and actually received them on time?

I'm asking the question. At what point does the deception and/or misinformation become an outright LIE?

I see the entire situation as one of three issues.

1. They need the cash (literally how could you mention spending any time on LE's when the backlog on paid for knives is over a year long wait and more, and NO ONE is ever given a true ship date).
2. The amount of customers here on BF is relatively small and the folks over at S!K (however nice they may be) could care less about us being unhappy.
3. Pride and/or Greed is standing in the way of them making some real changes.
 
Always entertaining to see people freaking out over knife delays like they had a deadline to save the world with it.
 
winger51 said:
What amazes me is that those that are so discontent, rightfully so, aren't buying knives from the "For Sale: Fixed Blades" where for the price of a S!K you can purchase a very high quality true custom for less than $240 on average. I just received a very fine example of what is typically available there, cost me $155 shipped.

Having received my 4.7 CPM 154 I am very pleased, but I would never prepay for an S!K or any other knife at this point. Yes, the 4.7 is an improvement over the 3.5 and 4.1 I also own, but it is after all just a very good production type knife. That said, I will use it as such and will enjoy it for what it is. I rotate all of my knives with very few exceptions, depending on intended use or ease of carry.

Regardless as to whether S!K succeeds or fails, they have lost the respect of many, for yes, their willful recurrent delays, which is blatantly deceptive.
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Well that's a very important point why it's not FAIR to influence a purchase through misrepresenting time-lines of delivery. SK does NOT exist in a vacuum.


I'll give you a perfect example. I bought a Monday 2nd Gso 2.8 that was listed in stock, and stated 10~15 days shipping when I bought in September. I figured I would have it in time for Deer Season. (We process our own deer).
Well, here I am with Doe License and Three tags in November with still no Knife! Had I known I wouldn't have it in time, I would have bought a sweet custom Lon Humphrey I was looking at. But now I am stuck in Limbo held hostage by Survive not knowing WHEN I will get my knife and already vested in two months and afraid to cancel thinking it may ship out any day.
 
What baffles, infuriates and intrigues me is the continued positivity of the First Friday updates. It's like standing in lava, and when asked if you are OK, answering with "yes, my feet are a little hot, but other than that I'm doing great!"
 
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