Concerns About Survive! Business and Misleading Lead Time Estimates

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Skystorm said:
I get that you are frustrated both with the ordering and being ignored as far as getting your refund goes but you should direct that ire to Survive! where it belongs, and not the fellow members here. Advocating for others to buy so you can get a refund and they can be in your shoes later is a bit hypocritical.
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mlmcasual said:
I am advocating the Faithful going in eyes wide open to buy a 7/7. My advocating the remaining vocal faithful to "put money where mouth is" is not hypocritical, rather just the opposite. You implied my refund was stalled out from the lack of 7/7 presales, so why WOUDLN'T I advocate? If 7/7 presales will get his SK business model engine moving again (that appears stalled out) why not advocate?? Helps me, helps faithful get their knives, helps SK... etct.. Besides, regarding paypal, that ship has sailed. I am past the time frame for dispute even if I wanted.
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Wow, when did I start agreeing with Skystorm?!

mlm, you've been cheerleading for refunds for months. You're sounding like the "surrogates" and "shills" that you love so much.
 
Paypal extended the time to file a dispute to 180 aka 6 months.

Purchase Protection covers all eligible purchases where PayPal is used, as well as payments made through our website. To take advantage of Purchase Protection, we require, among other things, that PayPal accounts be kept in good standing and ask that a dispute be filed within 180 days of your purchase or payment.
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https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/paypal-safety-and-security
 
Fancier said:
Silver, stop feeding him, it only makes him grow. ;)
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I know! I need to be better about that............ moment of weakness.


This next question is for anyone OTHER than mlm: With other companies is there a precedent for how soon a refund requests through PayPal has to happen or is the problem that they said "a few days" and you weren't refunded after a week passed by?
 
Vernal2014 said:
This was the last straw for me. I requested a refund on Thursday and haven't heard anything.
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Now to add to that they offer the 4.1 LE with a 6-10 month estimated delivery date. With 8 models still to work through plus the rest of the 4.7's this is very unlikely to happen imo. They have been working on the 4.7's alone for close to a year havent they? And, if they decide to finish and ship the LE's before the other 8-9 models, they will be spending time finishing these before working on blades that customers paid for much earlier. Plus, they have steel for 7 models but, only one model is scheduled to be sent out to be cut, finished, heat treated. Why are more not scheduled when they are paid for in full? And, why are they wasting more time and money having the LE's machined before they do the other models that were paid for months or even years ago? It's pretty ridiculous imo and I really dont understand why anyone continues to support this company but to each their own. They make nice knives but, their business model, practices, and customer service is horrendous and unsustainable imo. I personally think that bankruptcy is a certainty for them if they dont make some pretty drastic changes quickly and even then I dont know if they can dig themselves out of the hole. I just wish I never invested in this company and hope I get my money back. Lets hope, we all get our refunds this week without any further action so we can move on. No knife is worth this amount of stress imo.
 
Silver Needle said:
I know! I need to be better about that............ moment of weakness.


This next question is for anyone OTHER than mlm: With other companies is there a precedent for how soon a refund requests through PayPal has to happen or is the problem that they said "a few days" and you weren't refunded after a week passed by?
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Any other time I have had to request a refund, including one other with Survive, it happened the same day I put in the request. It only takes a few clicks of a mouse to do a refund, it is not an elaborate process.
 
That is a lot of information to take in. One thing is for sure.. It benefits everyone that choose to remain eyes wide open to keep the engine going.
 
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I know some of us are a bit stressed with the situation but, lets try and keep this civil please guys. There is no need to bicker amongst ourselves.
 
Tachead7075 said:
Now to add to that they offer the 4.1 LE with a 6-10 month estimated delivery date. With 8 models still to work through plus the rest of the 4.7's this is very unlikely to happen imo. They have been working on the 4.7's alone for close to a year havent they? And, if they decide to finish and ship the LE's before the other 8-9 models, they will be spending time finishing these before working on blades that customers paid for much earlier. Plus, they have steel for 7 models but, only one model is scheduled to be sent out to be cut, finished, heat treated. Why are more not scheduled when they are paid for in full? And, why are they wasting more time and money having the LE's machined before they do the other models that were paid for months or even years ago? It's pretty ridiculous imo and I really dont understand why anyone continues to support this company but to each their own. They make nice knives but, their business model, practices, and customer service is horrendous and unsustainable imo. I personally think that bankruptcy is a certainty for them if they dont make some pretty drastic changes quickly and even then I dont know if they can dig themselves out of the hole. I just wish I never invested in this company and hope I get my money back. Lets hope, we all get our refunds this week without any further action so we can move on. No knife is worth this amount of stress imo.
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I have to admit that my eyes may have crossed after reading a bit of that. Paragraphs and page breaks exist for a reason. Regarding your closing sentence, I disagree. I've never had a S!K that wasn't worth a lot of fuss, $, or time.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
Tachead7075 said:
Now to add to that they offer the 4.1 LE with a 6-10 month estimated delivery date. With 8 models still to work through plus the rest of the 4.7's this is very unlikely to happen imo. They have been working on the 4.7's alone for close to a year havent they? And, if they decide to finish and ship the LE's before the other 8-9 models, they will be spending time finishing these before working on blades that customers paid for much earlier. Plus, they have steel for 7 models but, only one model is scheduled to be sent out to be cut, finished, heat treated. Why are more not scheduled when they are paid for in full? And, why are they wasting more time and money having the LE's machined before they do the other models that were paid for months or even years ago? It's pretty ridiculous imo and I really dont understand why anyone continues to support this company but to each their own. They make nice knives but, their business model, practices, and customer service is horrendous and unsustainable imo. I personally think that bankruptcy is a certainty for them if they dont make some pretty drastic changes quickly and even then I dont know if they can dig themselves out of the hole. I just wish I never invested in this company and hope I get my money back. Lets hope, we all get our refunds this week without any further action so we can move on. No knife is worth this amount of stress imo.
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There's a lot in your post that I just don't have answers for. As far as not sending more sheets of steel to get cut, they already have more than enough material in their shop to work on at one time. I think it is smart to have the restraint to wait.
 
Sky, you raise some good points, and we all wish that production was faster, including I am certain Ellie and Guy.
I am pleased to see that longer (and more realistic) delivery estimates have been published for their current sales.
One of the goals of the starter campaign was to build inventory, and I do think that they have inventory in the pipeline well in excess of the numbers that were sold during the starter and preorder phases.
If that is true it only makes sense for Survive to sell this excess inventory as it becomes clear to them how many first quality blanks they have.
They appear to have stopped expedited the shipping of uglies, seconds and limited editions, due I am convinced to the vehemence of the complaints lodged against them.
This does, I think, address most the issues lodged against them with the exception of their production backlog and slow communications.
I consider this to be progress.
 
Tachead7075 said:
Any other time I have had to request a refund, including one other with Survive, it happened the same day I put in the request. It only takes a few clicks of a mouse to do a refund, it is not an elaborate process.
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That makes sense. I realize the process itself is quick, but I didn't know if every company out there makes it happen immediately.
 
Silver Needle said:
Wow, when did I start agreeing with Skystorm?!

mlm, you've been cheerleading for refunds for months. You're sounding like the "surrogates" and "shills" that you love so much.
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If putting your money where your mouth is makes me a troll, a surrogate, a shill.. then deal me in bud. For over a year the answer LONG before me was "just get a refund".. Ok, well, I put my money where my mouth is.. and asking (and still waiting). It's been accepted that SK's business model relies on CURRENT presales to make the engine move. It's a win-win to get that engine moving.
Fancier, have you gotten a 7/7 presale yet? My cancel has your name on it bud. :thumbup:
 
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Tachead7075 said:
Any other time I have had to request a refund, including one other with Survive, it happened the same day I put in the request. It only takes a few clicks of a mouse to do a refund, it is not an elaborate process.
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Tachead7075 said:
I know some of us are a bit stressed with the situation but, lets try and keep this civil please guys. There is no need to bicker amongst ourselves.
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Keeping calm starts at home, sir. As far as "bickering amongst ourselves" you have done naught other than complain here.

Don't come here and bitch, then tell us to chill out.
 
I guess my only concern here is that in the past, refunds seemed like they happened very quickly. They were almost nice about it. Kind of a, "Okay, you don't want to wait, thanks anyway and here's your money back".

Now suddenly, amidst all the conjecture about the business imploding financially, LE's and Pre-Orders being sold despite the overwhelming negativity surrounding that practice, refunds are not being issued, and in fact, seemingly are being ignored, with some people waiting days and going into weeks. Add in Guy's statement of selling those to cover monthly costs and the fact that you'll be banned if you open a dispute of any kind.

Well, not being a financial genius, it appears there are indeed some serious money troubles going on.

If I had any future pre-orders on the books, I'd definitely cancel (I know, that would be the end of S!K).

BUT, according to Ellie, my one and only knife on order is due to ship in about another week or so (my "pre-sale" 2.7 from July that was going to be done "in a couple months"), so I'm holding out huge amounts of hope here. I know, I know, they've never met a timeline, but I got that info from Ellie and have to believe that she would not lie to me directly on the phone.

So, according to S!K's recent posts, it's all rainbows and unicorns and we're almost half way through the mythical November turnaround.

But from here on the outside looking in, with the absence of any real info from S!K, the refund issue looks like a death knell to me and probably others as well.

Please let me be wrong (and get my 2.7 before the walls cave in, or I go insane). ;)
 
grogimus said:
I have to admit that my eyes may have crossed after reading a bit of that. Paragraphs and page breaks exist for a reason. Regarding your closing sentence, I disagree. I've never had a S!K that wasn't worth a lot of fuss, $, or time.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
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This is a forum man not an english term paper. I was just getting some quick thoughts down.

As to my last sentence, its not just about how good/nice the knife is for me. I dont like to support companies that lie, cheat, treat customers poorly, exc. Survive is transitioning into the same category as BRKT and Strider for me now. YMMV. I also dont like to gamble my hard earned money on a company when I think there is a good chance they will go bust so to speak. Had I have known what I do now about their house of cards business model, I would not have invested/purchased in the first place.
 
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