Concerns About Survive! Business and Misleading Lead Time Estimates

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Silver Needle said:
There's a lot in your post that I just don't have answers for. As far as not sending more sheets of steel to get cut, they already have more than enough material in their shop to work on at one time. I think it is smart to have the restraint to wait.
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Sheets of metal or cut knife blanks in shop dont make much of a difference imo. In fact, blanks likely take up less space. There could be delays with their water jet guy that could cause major production delays eventually exc. Imo there should be far more then one model in the various stages of outsourced production. It makes me wonder about where all that pre-order money is. It could be in the bank but, it also could already be spent. Either way, it makes me uncomfortable.
 
Tachead7075 said:
Sheets of metal or cut knife blanks in shop dont make much of a difference imo. In fact, blanks likely take up less space. There could be delays with their water jet guy that could cause major production delays eventually exc. Imo there should be far more then one model in the various stages of outsourced production. It makes me wonder about where all that pre-order money is. It could be in the bank but, it also could already be spent. Either way, it makes me uncomfortable.
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Again, I don't have all the answers here, but (especially if they're working with a finite amount of money) I think it makes sense to focus on the knives in their various stages in the shop. If some models are almost done and some haven't even gotten started, why add more blade blanks to sit around? I can't imagine they could get to the 3.5's before next month even if they were finished being cut, so why start the cutting now if they wouldn't be able to give them attention for a few more months? I doubt this makes you feel better about the situation, but this part makes sense to me. I can't say that about everything going on right now.
 
Tachead7075 said:
This is a forum man not an english term paper. I was just getting some quick thoughts down.

As to my last sentence, its not just about how good/nice the knife is for me. I dont like to support companies that lie, cheat, treat customers poorly, exc. Survive is transitioning into the same category as BRKT and Strider for me now. YMMV. I also dont like to gamble my hard earned money on a company when I think there is a good chance they will go bust so to speak. Had I have known what I do now about their house of cards business model, I would not have invested/purchased in the first place.
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Then take your message out of this forum please. Don't like them? No problem. Take it to GB&U, but this is the forum for us poor deluded fools that support the company. We KNOW they're struggling to meet their deadlines. We just choose to accept that. We like to think that Guy and Ellie are good people, despite your character assassination, and don't you dare backpedal and and call it anything else. It is what it is.
 
Silver Needle said:
Again, I don't have all the answers here, but (especially if they're working with a finite amount of money) I think it makes sense to focus on the knives in their various stages in the shop. If some models are almost done and some haven't even gotten started, why add more blade blanks to sit around? I can't imagine they could get to the 3.5's before next month even if they were finished being cut, so why start the cutting now if they wouldn't be able to give them attention for a few more months? I doubt this makes you feel better about the situation, but this part makes sense to me. I can't say that about everything going on right now.
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You are one hell of a man Silver. God bless.

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Is it not a little bothersome that Ellie has been active on this forum within the past 4 days but can't address these concerns here? I don't have twitter or instagram and the only time I see those updates are when people post them here. Nothing I've seen speaks to what we are talking about.

Why are the limited edition knives being worked on instead of preorders? Why don't the production schedules seem to follow any sort of pattern? Why do they quote lead times if they can't possibly follow them?

"SURVIVE! News:

The GSO-5.1 production run sold out much more quickly than we had anticipated or would have liked. Since then we have received countless requests to place preorders for the next production run. We have been trying to figure out a way to help those people who were not able to get the knife they wanted, without doing another long preorder. We think we have a solution, but it needs a test run before we implement it for future production runs. So, starting at 2pm Monday the GSO-5.1 will be available for preorder, for only 48 hours. After 2pm Wednesday, you will not be able to order a GSO-5.1 until the run has been completed in a few months - there will be no other waiting list or alternative way to guarantee you will be able to get a GSO-5.1. Ellie will be getting the GSO-5.1 product page setup today, so check that out over the weekend for full details."

When I preordered a 5.1 the stated production time was "a few months". Now it's 6 months.

I want the knives I preordered. I really do. But how can they run a company when they can't produce knives, and have to produce knives to cover the bills?
 
mikebandw186 said:
Is it not a little bothersome that Ellie has been active on this forum within the past 4 days but can't address these concerns here? I don't have twitter or instagram and the only time I see those updates are when people post them here. Nothing I've seen speaks to what we are talking about.

Why are the limited edition knives being worked on instead of preorders? Why don't the production schedules seem to follow any sort of pattern? Why do they quote lead times if they can't possibly follow them?

"SURVIVE! News:

The GSO-5.1 production run sold out much more quickly than we had anticipated or would have liked. Since then we have received countless requests to place preorders for the next production run. We have been trying to figure out a way to help those people who were not able to get the knife they wanted, without doing another long preorder. We think we have a solution, but it needs a test run before we implement it for future production runs. So, starting at 2pm Monday the GSO-5.1 will be available for preorder, for only 48 hours. After 2pm Wednesday, you will not be able to order a GSO-5.1 until the run has been completed in a few months - there will be no other waiting list or alternative way to guarantee you will be able to get a GSO-5.1. Ellie will be getting the GSO-5.1 product page setup today, so check that out over the weekend for full details."

When I preordered a 5.1 the stated production time was "a few months". Now it's 6 months.

I want the knives I preordered. I really do. But how can they run a company when they can't produce knives, and have to produce knives to cover the bills?
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It's a little bothersome that someone with 16 posts thinks he should spout off here. If you have a problem with the company please take it to GB&U.

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Tachead7075 said:
Sheets of metal or cut knife blanks in shop dont make much of a difference imo. In fact, blanks likely take up less space. There could be delays with their water jet guy that could cause major production delays eventually exc. Imo there should be far more then one model in the various stages of outsourced production. It makes me wonder about where all that pre-order money is. It could be in the bank but, it also could already be spent. Either way, it makes me uncomfortable.
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Tach, we can complain that they have a really long backlog and aren't likely to ship all the 7/7 orders for many months.
We can complain that they've spent too much money and need to sell excess stock to raise operating capital.
We can complain that they aren't offering refunds quickly enough.
We can even complain that they need more inventory on hand ready to finish into knives.
Complaining about all these things at once doesn't make sense to me.

Consider that if they put the 3.5 into production next month that it will probably take around six months before all the components are completed and in the shop ready for their final processing.
Does anybody really think that Survive will run out of inventory on hand before next summer?
They have to finish the 4.7, 2.7, 4.1, 7/7 and 4 regrind models before they need to work on the 3.5.
I am confident that they have the time.
Moreover if Guy thinks that he needs to start the outside operations on the 3.5 (and wants to spend the money on the vendors to complete that work) then I consider that to be a hopeful sign.
 
grogimus said:
It's a little bothersome that someone with 16 posts thinks he should spout off here. If you have a problem with the company please take it to GB&U.

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How is voicing legitimate concerns in a polite way spouting off?
 
Fancier said:
Tach, we can complain that they have a really long backlog and aren't likely to ship all the 7/7 orders for many months.
Consider that if they put the 3.5 into production next month that it will probably take around six months before all the components are completed and in the shop ready for their final processing.
Does anybody really think that Survive will run out of inventory on hand before next summer?
They have to finish the 4.7, 2.7, 4.1, 7/7 and 4 regrind models before they need to work on the 3.5.
I am confident that they have the time.
Moreover if Guy thinks that he needs to start the outside operations on the 3.5 (and wants to spend the money on the vendors to complete that work) then I consider that to be a hopeful sign.
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Hear hear! I applaud the 4th of July sentiment from the faithfull.
I would also consider it a hopeful sign if you put your money where your mouth is and buy a 7/7 presale. Have you done that sir? Great opportunity.


 
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mlmcasual said:
Hear hear! I applaud the 4th of July sentiment from the faithfull.
I would also consider it a hopeful sign if you put your money where your mouth is and buy a 7/7 presale. Have you done that sir? Great opportunity.


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This is sounding more and more like trolling. There's enough going on in here without it.
 
grogimus said:
It's a little bothersome that someone with 16 posts thinks he should spout off here. If you have a problem with the company please take it to GB&U.

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So, ignoring his valid concern because he has 16 posts. I find that bothersome.


I think knowing they have seen this thread and purposefully ignore it, does hold weight. And is reason for concern, really why wouldn't it be?
 
Silver Needle said:
That makes sense. I realize the process itself is quick, but I didn't know if every company out there makes it happen immediately.
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I am sure every company doesn't but, when you tell customers it will happen in a couple or few days that should be plenty of time and you should stick to your word. You also shouldn't stop answering emails when they ask what is going on. We are going on 10 or more days for some of us and I dont think its unreasonable for some to be upset. Especially when it appears that they are ignoring the posts and threads on here about it as well.
 
Survive might want to consider removing the "few months" estimate from their presale ads. If a model takes a year to complete, so be it but leading people to believe that they might have a 5.1 in hand in a few months is not accurate.
 
grogimus said:
Keeping calm starts at home, sir. As far as "bickering amongst ourselves" you have done naught other than complain here.

Don't come here and bitch, then tell us to chill out.
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My "bitching" as you put is for good reason. I used to be a happy Survive supporter and loyal customer. And, I have been nothing but, civil and calm here grog.
 
All, I have always desired the GS10, once in a blue moon one can find one here. I thought about ordering one and decided not too because of the build time. I have always not understood why any knife should require months of time to build especially when there is a lot of interest other than full on Customs.

Hope all works out for all, seems they have been, and are a stand up company so I would not think there will be any issues on refunds.

TD
 
DJC72 said:
Survive might want to consider removing the "few months" estimate from their presale ads. If a model takes a year to complete, so be it but leading people to believe that they might have a 7/7 or 5.1 in hand in a few months is not accurate.
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Better yet: survive should list 1 year out as estimate delivery, that is the honest response I would expect.. let customer decide if they are willing to tie their money that long.. or better yet, charge full amount only when knife ships.. they been around 3 years, this startup company needs money does not apply any more.. IRS gives companies 2 years of negative returns, then either close the shop or become profitable


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