Concerns About Survive! Business and Misleading Lead Time Estimates

[ncrockclimb]

I keep meaning to tell you that I like your tanuki.

Thanks, Bubbles. I am wearing my "GB, Parts Unknown" t-shirt as I type this.

 

[leatherman]

The tempers are hot, the concerns are valid. But

Lets remember the words of a Super Mod that posted both here and the other thread, discuss the issue NOT each other.

Discussing each other is going to cause Red Cards to start flying and wont solve the issue, in fact it will only exacerbate the issue.

Some house cleaning is needed in isle 4, a rep needs to step up and address some of this. Hearsay, guesses, and out and out lies are NOT helping in any way but make a difficult issue a LOT worse.

 

[Fancier]

Hear hear! I applaud the 4th of July sentiment from the faithfull.
I would also consider it a hopeful sign if you put your money where your mouth is and buy a 7/7 presale. Have you done that sir? Great opportunity.



Um, yeah, actually I ordered a 7/7 right after this thread got started.
It seemed like the polite thing to do.

 

[mlmcasual]

Um, yeah, actually I ordered a 7/7 right after this thread got started.
It seemed like the polite thing to do.

Seriously? Sweet Fancier.. I commend you sir! That's all we can really do right? :thumbup:

All we can do is ask each other to put our OWN actions and money where our mouth is. I think that deserves props and respect. All the info is out there and people that practice what they preach walk tall.
The 7/7 is going to be amazing.

On a tangent issue, does anyone know if Ellie allows for canceled orders to be transferred/offered to others? Is there anyone interested in a VERY Early preorder GSO12? Seems like a waste to let it go back unclaimed.

 

[Tachead7075]

You answered my question. I get there is plenty to be unhappy about, but I wanted to know if the discontent because of waiting on refunds came from waiting in general or more because there was a time frame mentioned and not followed through with.


I meant to say if they need handles and sheaths for knives that are I there shop, their resources might be better spent on finishing what they already have and are currently working through than getting more stuff to wait in line in the shop. Not sure if I'm explaining myself any better or not............

A little of both I suppose but, more of the latter. If they had told me it was going to be a little longer and had a good reason I would have been ok with that as long as it was reasonable. It doesn't help that my patience had already been worn thin because of the other delays and missed promises either though.

Yeah, I get what you mean but, really their should be more then enough money for both. The price we paid for each knife should cover the knife, sheath, scales, packaging, shipping, and have plenty enough left over for profit and expenses/overhead. Now, if its time you mean by resources, I dont think setting up appointments for outsourced work would take up much of that.

It just makes me a bit uncomfortable seeing only one model waiting to go into the various stages of outsourced production when in the past there was more going on. It could be just all this other stuff going on making me paranoid though

 

[Silver Needle]

A little of both I suppose but, more of the latter. If they had told me it was going to be a little longer and had a good reason I would have been ok with that as long as it was reasonable. It doesn't help that my patience had already been worn thin because of the other delays and missed promises either though.

Yeah, I get what you mean but, really their should be more then enough money for both. The price we paid for each knife should cover the knife, sheath, scales, packaging, shipping, and have plenty enough left over for profit and expenses/overhead. Now, if its time you mean by resources, I dont think setting up appointments for outsourced work would take up much of that.

It just makes me a bit uncomfortable seeing only one model waiting to go into the various stages of outsourced production when in the past there was more going on. It could be just all this other stuff going on making me paranoid though

I'm making some poor assumptions about the money and resources and over complicating things. I guess my stance is: if they're currently busy with 4.7's and 2.7's, and the 4.1's and 7/7's are in the shop and "on deck", what difference does it make if the 3.5's are in the shop being ignored or waiting to be cut?

I definitely don't have an answer and doubt anyone outside of the shop would!

 

[Tachead7075]

I'm making some poor assumptions about the money and resources and over complicating things. I guess my stance is: if they're currently busy with 4.7's and 2.7's, and the 4.1's and 7/7's are in the shop and "on deck", what difference does it make if the 3.5's are in the shop being ignored or waiting to be cut?

I definitely don't have an answer and doubt anyone outside of the shop would!

I guess I just dont get the point of waiting to send out all models when they are already paid for. It just introduces the chance for hold ups in production. Machine shops can get booked solid for a long time and it would sure suck if they dragged their feet on scheduling/getting the work done and then caught up before more knives got back to the shop from the various stages of outsourced work. In the past I remember seeing things happening in all or most stages of production. Now there is nothing happening but, a planned date for the 3.5's to start. O, that and now the LE's but, don't get me started on that lol. I really don't get many of SK! business choices or even their general business model really.

Anyway, its not my place to tell them how to run their business but, with all the other stuff going one here this is just another thing that could be a sign of cash flow issues and that is the main reason I brought it up. But, I guess there is no point in further guessing/conjecture. Time will tell. I will just be happy when/if I get my money back and can move on. This is far more stress and B.S. then any knife enthusiast/customer should ever have to go through imo.

 

[Silver Needle]

I guess I just dont get the point of waiting to send out all models when they are already paid for. It just introduces the chance for hold ups in production. Machine shops can get booked solid for a long time and it would sure suck if they dragged their feet on scheduling/getting the work done and then caught up before more knives got back to the shop from the various stages of outsourced work. In the past I remember seeing things happening in all or most stages of production. Now there is nothing happening but, a planned date for the 3.5's to start. O, that and now the LE's but, don't get me started on that lol. I really don't get many of SK! business choices or even their general business model really.

Anyway, its not my place to tell them how to run their business but, with all the other stuff going one here this is just another thing that could be a sign of cash flow issues and that is the main reason I brought it up. But, I guess there is no point in further guessing/conjecture. Time will tell. I will just be happy when/if I get my money back and can move on. This is far more stress and B.S. then any knife enthusiast/customer should ever have to go through imo.

Considerations with the machine shops is finally making sense to me.

I'd have to look back to know for sure, but I don't know if they ever had so many models in the shop at once. When they were working through 5.1's I thought there was more in different stages, but not as many models in the shop. If I'm wrong on that then I really don't have an explanation.

Good luck on the refund. I'm sure it's an issue of when, not if.

 

[Tachead7075]

Considerations with the machine shops is finally making sense to me.

I'd have to look back to know for sure, but I don't know if they ever had so many models in the shop at once. When they were working through 5.1's I thought there was more in different stages, but not as many models in the shop. If I'm wrong on that then I really don't have an explanation.

Good luck on the refund. I'm sure it's an issue of when, not if.

Thanks Silver, I appreciate that sir:thumbup:

 

[knarfeng]

one infraction issued for an outright insult.
Dwayne is right. Discuss the knife and not each other.

 

[mlmcasual]

Thanks Silver, I appreciate that sir:thumbup:

Well, look up, tomorrow is the beginning of a new week and nothing happens on the weekend. God willing we can put all this behind us very soon. I know I really could use the money. God speed to you.

 

[Tachead7075]

Well, look up, tomorrow is the beginning of a new week and nothing happens on the weekend. God willing we can put all this behind us very soon. I know I really could use the money. God speed to you.

This is true. I hope so too. Thanks man, to you as well:thumbup:

 

[mlmcasual]

BTW, regarding activity out of SK's shop..

I am now 37 days PAST the original stated 15 day guaranteed Monday2nd delivery... and also TWO weeks past the follow up reply stated delay to that same order I was told.
I am one week past the stated refund (on a seperate order)...

That makes Three very recent stated time commitments by SK that have blown through. (and still pending) So, my question.. has ANYONE here gotten any of their orders in the past three weeks??

 

[Karoi]

Sweet holy christ on a unicorn, what is going ON in here?

Guy, Ellie: get your act together and both address your customers' concerns, and take a hand in MODERATING YOUR SUBFORUM.

Agreed. It's pretty obvious (to me at least) why they haven't addressed our concerns with one simple post, or at least an acknowledgement of the current issues in the last production schedule.

Oh well, time will tell.......

 

[JimmyR]

Your Survive! knife will increase in value by what 50% by the time you get it . That's a pretty good return , better than a bank . If they pumped out knives as fast as some people want , they wouldn't hold value at all , they would decrease. Just look at what other brands sell for , Bark Rivers that are like new and sell for 100.00 less than new.

 

[mtangent]

Your Survive! knife will increase in value by what 50% by the time you get it . That's a pretty good return , better than a bank . If they pumped out knives as fast as some people want , they wouldn't hold value at all , they would decrease. Just look at what other brands sell for , Bark Rivers that are like new and sell for 100.00 less than new.

That would be a compliment, if SK were stockbrokers.
The reality is S!K are knife manufacturers, who presell knives faster than they can make them.

 

[Citori]

Your Survive! knife will increase in value by what 50% by the time you get it .

Where are you seeing people flipping Survive knives at a 50% premium?

The last few in the Exchange here have commanded fairly small premiums, something on the order of 5-8%. A new spec 5.1 2nd went for $260 versus $235 retail. I bought an old spec 5.1 at $250 but it had a second set of slabs and a second sheath. The 4.7 that went for a 40% premium had some collector appeal. There was a recent post with a 3.5 and a 5.1 and both sold at pretty much retail. I believe the 5.1 spearpoint sold below retail.

In any case the thread is not about the total number of knives Survive produces, nor the wait itself. It is about their habit of misleading their customers by continuing to quote lead times they cannot meet. Everything other than that is just an attempt at distraction.

 

[Fancier]

Oh, I thought this thread was half about their business and half about their time estimates.
It is most assuredly 53 pages of people expressing their concerns.
All in about five weeks, which is pretty impressive.

 

[timichango]

one infraction issued for an outright insult.
Dwayne is right. Discuss the knife and not each other.

Do you moderator folks have any power to compel the company owners to actually step up and address some of this and/or moderate this subforum? Esav and Morrow indicated that was going to happen, but so far, no presence from the company has graced this thread, nor any other with any substantive questions about the business practices of the company.

Not sure if/how that violates any terms surrounding even having a manufacturer subforum, but to my mind, one of the biggest central breaches of trust from Survive! revolves around the fact that they seem perfectly happy to use this forum as a vehicle to promote their products, and build familiarity and trust with user base here, but things start going bad, and they don't uphold that trust by remaining transparent, and continuing that open dialogue with their customers. Seems like a pretty obvious one way street to me.

Relationship marketing through social media needs to be a two-way street: it works wonders when all is well, but you need to be prepared to also remain present and accountable when things are going poorly.

Where's the accountability from S!K? Apparently nonexistent.

 

[mlmcasual]

Ellie has been active through the week last week in other threads answering questions and most recently about their new Limited Edition Knives. So they are seeing and responding to threads. But there has been radio silence about the refunds. Soooo I think for now, that (IS) your answer. Tomorrow is a new week. I hope all is ok over at the SK camp and it's just a minor temporarily inconvenience and this is much to do about nothing.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/member.php/379131-SURVIVE!-Ellie




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