Council Tool Velvicut Saddle Axe Review.

Square_peg said:
42, it's just a guess about having the tooling but I'd bet on it if there was a way to know for sure. It's a typical marketing ploy to describe any feature as a bonus whether it is or not. It will make it easier to find a store bought handle for. But in the future it might also be mistaken for a worn out cruiser because of the eye size. That could effect its future value. Some might prefer to have "a real saddle axe" with a real saddle axe eye. Not to say that this isn't a real saddle axe. It is. But it could be perceived differently.

Lastly, if they did have to make new tooling then it would pay to make the tooling multi-purpose so they could use it for a later cruiser line.
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Well, we have it from the designer himself (above) that it's new tooling, and the presence of eye ridges would support that. Indeed, though, it's certainly beneficial to have multi-purpose tooling that can be used for multiple models and so I agree that it wouldn't be at all surprising if there were a full cruiser added in future.
 
DeadboxHero said:
The bits on are not long enough and it's not heavy enough to maximize a 28" handle.

In the past, I tried a boys axe head on a 36" handle. It didn't work well, this would be the same, which is why I recommend 19" for this one. But it's nice to have 14" for the ultra portability.
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Two pound cruisers axes are rare but have been made before and work very well.





 
Square_peg said:
Defeats the purpose of having a saddle axe. There are lots of regular cruiser size axes available. A saddle axe is by definition a smaller version of a cruiser. Why pay a premium for a saddle axe just to turn it into a cheaper off-the-shelf style axe?

.
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Point me in the direction of a currently manufactured U.S made quality double bit that is 2 to 3 lbs with phantom bevels and good steel................
 
Just my opinion but the Council "saddle axe" is a cruiser axe with a cut down handle. To me, the eye size and handle size where it enters the eye is a critical element to the aesthetics of a traditional saddle axe. With a 27" or 28" handle, this is a cruiser axe. With the handle it comes with, it is a cruiser axe with a hatchet length handle. Again, just my opinion as I know some love it just as it is, but when you change one dimension (length) but don't change other dimensions proportionally (eye size) you get an ugly duckling regardless of the work it will do. A slim 24" to 28" handle on these would correct that problem to my eye. The only similarity to a saddle axe that this has is length and that is not enough.

Calling this a saddle axe is about like saying a 2 pound single bit with a full size eye on a house axe handle is the same thing as something like a Marbles #10 Camp axe. Size matters, proportions matter. At least to me they do. I am glad that a lot of people seem to like it and I hope it is a big seller for Council but to me it just looks wrong. Looks are not everything but they are something.
 
Woodcraft said:
Point me in the direction of a currently manufactured U.S made quality double bit that is 2 to 3 lbs with phantom bevels and good steel................
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I don't know of any like that currently being made. But I know you can find cruisers on ebay all the time. You'll also find a lot of worn out double bits posing as cruisers. Eye size tells you.
 
Square_peg said:
I don't know of any like that currently being made. But I know you can find cruisers on ebay all the time. You'll also find a lot of worn out double bits posing as cruisers. Eye size tells you.
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Fair enough. But the whole Idea was to have a new one. Almost all my axes are older than me:). And that is not a complaint. But a new axe now and then to spice up the mix would be nice.
 
grafton said:
Just my opinion but the Council "saddle axe" is a cruiser axe with a cut down handle. To me, the eye size and handle size where it enters the eye is a critical element to the aesthetics of a traditional saddle axe. With a 27" or 28" handle, this is a cruiser axe. With the handle it comes with, it is a cruiser axe with a hatchet length handle. Again, just my opinion as I know some love it just as it is, but when you change one dimension (length) but don't change other dimensions proportionally (eye size) you get an ugly duckling regardless of the work it will do. A slim 24" to 28" handle on these would correct that problem to my eye. The only similarity to a saddle axe that this has is length and that is not enough.

Calling this a saddle axe is about like saying a 2 pound single bit with a full size eye on a house axe handle is the same thing as something like a Marbles #10 Camp axe. Size matters, proportions matter. At least to me they do. I am glad that a lot of people seem to like it and I hope it is a big seller for Council but to me it just looks wrong. Looks are not everything but they are something.
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I am really enjoying the more open dialogue of this review, keep it coming:D

It's not a cruiser axe. Period. :D

From my experience swinging and holding this axe in my hand a full 28" handle would not be ideal. You would not put a hatchet on a boys axe handle. It would be more powerful but there is a synergy between head weight, handle length and bit design.

a cruiser has more weight and bit length, you need a the bigger head to make up for the slower swinging of the longer haft to maximize efficiency.

It would be clumsy and anemic on a 28" haft.

Like I mentioned, I had an argument with a friend that could not look past the raw physics that longer handle is always better.
I told Him countlessly that a boys axe would not be effective on a 36", he did it anyway but he learned what I said above. Every swing took more time and did not have great effect. I could work circles around him. Even when we switched it was brutally obviously that it was not the right synergy.:D
Pictures can only show so much but they help.;)








A cruiser is a double bit boys axe.

This is not the size or weight of a boys axe.

This particular Saddle axe is unique, it's a heavy hatchet with a big eye but it's still in the realm of hatchets which is why I feel that if I wanted a longer haft a 19" haft would be in that sweet spot if portability was less of a concern.

But I am enjoying the 14" haft.

I'm currently working on a video to show more of this axe in action.

Thanks for sharing all of your opinions it's great to read other prospectives.
 
Several folks have reported excellent results from putting a lighter axe on a longer handle (essentially what GB does). 36" might be too much for a boys axe but I'm sure 32" would not be. I have something in the works along these lines.

A heavy axe on a short haft feels clunky to me. You don't get enough head speed for good penetration. They don't cut efficeintly.
 
While what really matters is your personal preference, history is on my side.

Saddle cruisers were dainty, elegant, light hatchets and never had large eyes. Some cruisers were 2 pounds such as the Marbles #15 Camp axe already mentioned. It is the same size as the Council and it came on a 27" handle. The point is, this Council axe or one like it never existed before now. It is new. Trying to use terms that were used to describe other known axes doesn't work well with this piece. It almost needs its own name. Cruisers in this size existed, saddle cruisers did not.

I have indeed put single bit hatchet heads on longer handles and many of the early camp axes sold from the early 1900s through the 1940s were exactly that, 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 pound heads on handles in the 16" to 24" range. The key is that they were not the big beefy handles available today. They were slim and the proportions matched the heads. A hatchet head on a 28" handle of today would indeed be a monstrosity. The length may be right but everything else is wrong.

There is a historical record of head weight to handle length. It varies some but 14" and two pounds was a combination you wont see in past examples. Some people might say they missed the sweet spot. I say they knew what they were doing better than we do now. I would make the bet that if you were to go back in time and hand this Council head to any of the major axe manufacturers they would match it to a handle in the neighborhood of 24" to 28".
 
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My primary use for it would be as a DB thrower. :D

The only thing I use my 2-1/2# DBs for is throwing, with 26" to 28" handles (26" is minimum competition-legal throwing length).

Has anyone thrown it yet to see how it flies with the factory length handle? Or am I gonna have to be the guinea pig?
 
It really comes down to preference on axes. The 1-3/4 & 2lbs marbles and hartwell brothers cruisers on 26-28inch handles are a sweet spot to me and preform just as well as the half pound heavier axes. Going by the commemorative SA I do own I'll have to agree with Grafton. The axe is almost like a miniature troll axe. I did get a tracking number from council today so I should have one to use in hand by the weekend.

As for putting a hatchet head on a boys axe, I've done that with a worn 2lbs woodslasher. It worked extremely well.
 
Woodcraft said:
Email them and ask. They will answer. Instead of just forcefully reclaiming you are correct, ask them. Personally I would imagine they have old blueprints, plans, dies, and everthing else imaginable at the disposal of the team. If you think they scrap it all and start fresh, ask them. Oh yeah, you have me on selective "ignore". Lol.
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The problem is on both sides of the argument. If they have old tooling lying around as Square Peg suggests for a Cruiser size, wouldn't they probably have it lying around for a smaller saddle axe? I mean, you certainly can't presume one and not the other.

Either way, the tooling question was clarified (before any of the people making statements took the time to ask), and even if it hadn't been clarified, it would seem the important point is that it is easy enough to find replacement handles / longer handles if you want one.
 
Did Council ever make a cruiser or a saddle cruiser anytime in the history of the company? I haven't see one.
 
leadbelly01 said:
It really comes down to preference on axes. The 1-3/4 & 2lbs marbles and hartwell brothers cruisers on 26-28inch handles are a sweet spot to me and preform just as well as the half pound heavier axes. Going by the commemorative SA I do own I'll have to agree with Grafton. The axe is almost like a miniature troll axe. I did get a tracking number from council today so I should have one to use in hand by the weekend.

As for putting a hatchet head on a boys axe, I've done that with a worn 2lbs woodslasher. It worked extremely well.
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If a 2lb head performs like a 2 1/2lb head it just means that you have reached your limit of diminishing returns.
 
Square_peg said:
Several folks have reported excellent results from putting a lighter axe on a longer handle (essentially what GB does). 36" might be too much for a boys axe but I'm sure 32" would not be. I have something in the works along these lines.

A heavy axe on a short haft feels clunky to me. You don't get enough head speed for good penetration. They don't cut efficeintly.
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A whole bunch of eastern loggers may disagree with you.
I am speaking historically. Short hafts seemed to be the norm there.
 
If someone wants to lend me a cruiser and a saddle axe I am more then willing to lend my time to share some swinging :D
 
Western loggers used long hafts. But I'm talking about smaller bushcraft type axes, 2-1/2 to 1-1/4 pounds. Those can go on longer than typical hafts with good results.
 
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