Council Tool Velvicut Saddle Axe Review.

At 1811 CST, I asked Council Tools via their Contact Us link on their web site about the availability of heads only as I want to put a "standard" 28" handle on them for throwing. I then shut down and left for home, assuming I wouldn't get a reply until tomorrow.

When I got home and finally got around to logging on to check my emails, I already had an answer from James Elkins at CT, sent at 1819 CST, 8 minutes after I sent my inquiry. Dang good CS on Valentine's Day evening.

Bottom line is, they won't sell the heads only due potential liability issue - some fool thinking they could put whatever handle they wanted to on the head because it was handle-less.

The message also indicated that CT was going to offer the Saddle Axe with a 20" handle at a time to be determined.

20 minutes later, at 1839 CST, James sent a longer response, re: 20" handle and headless sales....

We don't know when we will offer the longer handle but it will be offered eventually. On the liability, the biggest reason we won't sell just the head is if we did we as the manufacturer could be liable technically for providing you and incomplete tool and it could be conceived that we were giving you an option to put any handle you would like in the head we made therefore possibly making the Company liable for putting a different handle in the head and we don't want to run that type of risk if it is avoidable. Sorry for the long winded reply, just wanted you to understand why we do not offer heads only. Once you take custody of the axe you can do whatever you like.
 
A lot of it has to do with nodal vibration and how much dampening for the length of handle the mass of the head is able to provide. Just imagine a 12oz ball peen hammer head on a 36" handle and hitting anything solid with it. Shock city, because the mass of the head isn't great enough to shift the balance point far enough forward for the handle length, and the also is too light to soak up that resulting shock. So there are some practical limits to what you can do for head/handle matching when it comes to the head weight/handle length proportions.
 
A first-gen Cold Steel 2-handed Katana Machete (2HKM for short) I had for a very limited time had the balance point right at the location of the top hand, which was awkward as heck to manipulate and resulted in anemic cuts when held there, but resulted in atrocious joint-stinging shock when you held it down at the bottom of the (very long) handle. It was a piece of junk.
 
zzyzzogeton said:
At 1811 CST, I asked Council Tools via their Contact Us link on their web site about the availability of heads only as I want to put a "standard" 28" handle on them for throwing. I then shut down and left for home, assuming I wouldn't get a reply until tomorrow.

When I got home and finally got around to logging on to check my emails, I already had an answer from James Elkins at CT, sent at 1819 CST, 8 minutes after I sent my inquiry. Dang good CS on Valentine's Day evening.

Bottom line is, they won't sell the heads only due potential liability issue - some fool thinking they could put whatever handle they wanted to on the head because it was handle-less.

The message also indicated that CT was going to offer the Saddle Axe with a 20" handle at a time to be determined.

20 minutes later, at 1839 CST, James sent a longer response, re: 20" handle and headless sales....

We don't know when we will offer the longer handle but it will be offered eventually. On the liability, the biggest reason we won't sell just the head is if we did we as the manufacturer could be liable technically for providing you and incomplete tool and it could be conceived that we were giving you an option to put any handle you would like in the head we made therefore possibly making the Company liable for putting a different handle in the head and we don't want to run that type of risk if it is avoidable. Sorry for the long winded reply, just wanted you to understand why we do not offer heads only. Once you take custody of the axe you can do whatever you like.
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I tried to purchase a handful of the jersey classic heads without handles as well. Same answer.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
A lot of it has to do with nodal vibration and how much dampening for the length of handle the mass of the head is able to provide. Just imagine a 12oz ball peen hammer head on a 36" handle and hitting anything solid with it. Shock city, because the mass of the head isn't great enough to shift the balance point far enough forward for the handle length, and the also is too light to soak up that resulting shock. So there are some practical limits to what you can do for head/handle matching when it comes to the head weight/handle length proportions.
Click to expand...

Council tools offers both a two pound and a 1.75 pound head on a 28inch handle already. And we are discussing a two pound head So.............
 
here's a quick action video
[youtube]kvTcZt8lPfE[/youtube]

Ill make another with some limbing footage for ya Square_Peg :D
 
Looks like it's a better splitter than a chopper. A saddle axe is supposed to be a chopper/limber. I'll be looking for that next video.
 
If I had one I'd be tempted to knock the shoulder off the chopping side to bring it to a thinner convex of equal edge angle.
 
Not to hijack the thread, but how do you like the Hudson Bay? I'm looking for a good camping hatchet and I can get one of the Velvicut HB's for around $29 dollars out of pocket if I use a giftcard and a sale.
 
Good work there, DBH! Thanks for the video.

Square_peg said:
I applaud your efforts. Splitting firewood with such a small axe is obviously quite a chore. But then I doubt many folks were splitting wood in the saddle. It's a specialty limbing axe. I'd like to see how it limbs.
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DeadboxHero said:
That flat grind cuts like a boss. I'm sure I could breeze through limbing with single blows on two inch limbs.
Click to expand...

Square_peg said:
I'd be impressed if you can do that with such a wide angle on the bit. I wouldn't be impressed with the axe. I'd be impressed by YOU. You might do it in Alder.
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I think you discovered that single blows through a 2" limb aren't possible with this axe. A lot of factors go into making a cut like that. First the limb is flexible and gives to the blow. Energy is absorbed by the flex in the limb. Thinner faster moving blades are better for that task - think long machetes.

And you discovered that your best blows were at a steep angle so you were pulling on the limb not pushing it away from the bit. The thinner the bit the wider cut angle allowed.

Weight and handle length of the axe also is a factor as short heavier axes don't generate the head speed needed to make the cut before the limb absorbs your blow.

In general I prefer a light axe for limbing close to the trunk where the limb is rigid. When limbing away from the trunk a machete works much better.
 
grafton said:
Did Council ever make a cruiser or a saddle cruiser anytime in the history of the company? I haven't see one.
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A double-bit Cruiser is shown in Council Tool's catalogs, 2005 & 2006 (courtesy of the Wayback Machine):


Cedar Pattern -- single bit, and double bit cruiser (2.5# head on 28" handle)

Cedar Pattern
The Cedar style is available in single or double bit and features an extra-wide cutting face. Slightly rounded poll.

25-2cr.jpg


25-2CA.JPG



Council's 2005 catalog
[color photos are from Council's 2006 catalog.]
 
Steve Tall said:
A double-bit Cruiser is shown in Council Tool's catalogs, 2005 & 2006 (courtesy of the Wayback Machine):


Cedar Pattern -- single bit, and double bit cruiser (2.5# head on 28" handle)

Cedar Pattern
The Cedar style is available in single or double bit and features an extra-wide cutting face. Slightly rounded poll.

25-2cr.jpg


25-2CA.JPG



Council's 2005 catalog
[color photos are from Council's 2006 catalog.]
Click to expand...

If they still have the tooling bringing back the El Lobo would make them millions.
 
Thanks for the super review! Pretty little axe.
This discussion has been entertaining.
Personally, I like a smaller head on a long handle unless I'm doing a long splitting session.

This hatchet on a boy's axe handle looks slightly out of proportion, but is a real sweetheart around the yard. Better than the original short handle for me:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ults-Bruks-Husqvarna-re-hang-in-use-pix-added
 
DeadboxHero said:
You would not put a hatchet on a boys axe handle. It would be more powerful but there is a synergy between head weight, handle length and bit design.
Click to expand...

Respectfully I have, more than once. Both Marbles and C.A.C. produced axes like this, Hults Bruk currently produces the Akka.

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Don't knock it till you've tried it.

And thanks for another excellent review!
 
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