COUNTERFEITS removed from "Persian" edc blades?

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craytab said:
. . . they are in fact supporting the counterfeiting industry that hurts this hobby and many others . . .
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An industry that is currently estimated to be worth $500B globally and one that we will not impact no matter how much we huff and puff at it.

Seems as if some folks just aren't going to get it. Like it or not, counterfeiting is here to stay.
 
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craytab said:
No need to apologize. I believe I am being quite direct. At this point we both know where we both stand on this.



Meh.

I have seen more than a few ads that say they use the Axis lock (a patented mechanism and a trademarked term).

But this doesn't really matter. If you want to continue justifying your support for counterfeits why not PM me. I think this has gotten us off topic enough and I have made my point in that I warned folks that think they are getting a good knife, that they are in fact supporting the counterfeiting industry that hurts this hobby and many others.
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You may see Chinese knives advertised with the "Axis" lock. But not with the "AXIS(r)" lock registered to Benchmade. So they may be within their legal rights to advertise a type of lock not patented under the laws of their jurisdiction and without using a trademark registered to Benchmade.

But why should I PM you when you clearly don't know what you're talking about. I prefer to point out ignorance in public -- mine included if someone can establish that the AXIS(r) lock is patented in China. Though, as I noted above, that fact won't change my buying habits, since I'm not the international IP police.
 
Gadfly22 said:
You may see Chinese knives advertised with the "Axis" lock. But not with the "AXIS(r)" lock registered to Benchmade. So they may be within their legal rights to advertise a type of lock not patented under the laws of their jurisdiction and without using a trademark registered to Benchmade.

But why should I PM you when you clearly don't know what you're talking about. I prefer to point out ignorance in public -- mine included if someone can establish that the AXIS(r) lock is patented in China. Though, as I noted above, that fact won't change my buying habits, since I'm not the international IP police.
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Well, we agree on something :rolleyes:

Okay then pal. Go ahead and continue Justifying theft out here for all to see. Better yet, go to the Benchmade Forum and post this drivel. Or, go to the Spyderco forum and post about Navy knives. See how that goes. Hell, why not just PM it to Sal.
 
bld522 said:
An industry that is currently estimated to be worth $500B globally and one that we will not impact no matter how much we huff and puff at it.

Seems as if some folks just aren't going to get it. Like it or not, counterfeiting is here to stay.
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Oh, I agree. It is here to stay. Just like lots of nasty things. I mean, look at all the threads about it lately. And look at all the MEMBERS here who willingly support it.

Just because it is here to stay doesn't mean we should be quiet about it. If folks want to support it, that is their bad choice. And as you know, I sure as hell will be willing to point that out :D
 
craytab said:
Okay then pal. Go ahead and continue Justifying theft out here for all to see. Better yet, go to the Benchmade Forum and post this drivel. Or, go to the Spyderco forum and post about Navy knives. See how that goes. Hell, why not just PM it to Sal.
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Was that a huff or a puff?

The rules of engagement here are remarkably simple:

1. If you see something you don't like, don't buy it.

2. If you see something you like, buy it from an authorized dealer.

That is all.
 
bld522 said:
Was that a huff or a puff?
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I think it was both :eek:

We are all here to share our opinions right? My opinion is that supporting the counterfeit knife industry hurts our hobby and the companies we buy from. When someone recommends a knock off. I offer my opinion. If folks want to argue with me about it. That is their choice.

There is a reason counterfeits aren't allowed in the exchange, right?
 
craytab said:
Well, we agree on something :rolleyes:

Okay then pal. Go ahead and continue Justifying theft out here for all to see. Better yet, go to the Benchmade Forum and post this drivel.
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The Benchmade Forum is actually a very bold place. They maintain their own secondary market for used Benchmades. I don't know of any other knifemaker that does that. Because, as I have pointed out a number of times (though nobody ever acknowledges it, because it's an unpleasant fact), the secondary market here and on other forums actually steals sales from the knifemakers. Sure, some blades are well-used or discontinued. But notice all the "catch and release" or "NIB" offerings.

Those sales are being made to knife buyers who would be buying the real thing new from brick and mortar or internet shops at full price. The Ganzos of the world are being sold to the person with only $20 to spend and who might buy a Benchmade someday -- if he could afford it and get it shipped to his country. That guy might want a Cadillac but can only afford a Ford Fiesta. In short, not the same market.

So, sell an almost new 940 for 20% less than the going rate for new, and you've probably stolen a sale from Benchmade and/or a favorite interest knife seller. Buy a Ganzo and you've impacted Benchmade not a bit. Especially if you own the Ganzo and the Bedlam, like me.
 
Gadfly22 said:
The Benchmade Forum is actually a very bold place. They maintain their own secondary market for used Benchmades. I don't know of any other knifemaker that does that. Because, as I have pointed out a number of times (though nobody ever acknowledges it, because it's an unpleasant fact), the secondary market here and on other forums actually steals sales from the knifemakers. Sure, some blades are well-used or discontinued. But notice all the "catch and release" or "NIB" offerings.

Those sales are being made to knife buyers who would be buying the real thing new from brick and mortar or internet shops at full price. The Ganzos of the world are being sold to the person with only $20 to spend and who might buy a Benchmade someday -- if he could afford it and get it shipped to his country. That guy might want a Cadillac but can only afford a Ford Fiesta. In short, not the same market.

So, sell an almost new 940 for 20% less than the going rate for new, and you've probably stolen a sale from Benchmade and/or a favorite interest knife seller. Buy a Ganzo and you've impacted Benchmade not a bit. Especially if you own the Ganzo and the Bedlam, like me.
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Ah yes, just keep justifying your actions. You've got to have more reasons for supporting counterfeits, right?
 
craytab said:
I think it was both :eek:

We are all here to share our opinions right? My opinion is that supporting the counterfeit knife industry hurts our hobby and the companies we buy from. When someone recommends a knock off. I offer my opinion. If folks want to argue with me about it. That is their choice.

There is a reason counterfeits aren't allowed in the exchange, right?
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Fair enough. My opinion is that opinions don't matter. What matters is reality and how we choose to deal with it. Counterfeiting exists and it's here to stay. That's the reality of the situation. I've already stated what we can do about it. If we want to have any impact at all on the counterfeiting trade, NONE OF US SHOULD EVER BUY A KNIFE FROM OTHER THAN AN AUTHORIZED DEALER. If you have a better PRACTICAL solution than that, let's hear it. Otherwise we're just back to huffing, puffing, pulling threads off topic and forcing the mods to shut them down.
 
craytab said:
Ah yes, just keep justifying your actions. You've got to have more reasons for supporting counterfeits, right?
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Aaaaaaand you still don't know what a counterfeit is. Nor do you address my argument. Why didn't you just post "Oh yeah?". Then I could post "Yeah", and you could slink away.
 
bld522 said:
Fair enough. My opinion is that opinions don't matter. What matters is reality and how we choose to deal with it. Counterfeiting exists and it's here to stay. That's the reality of the situation. I've already stated what we can do about it. If we want to have any impact at all on the counterfeiting trade, NONE OF US SHOULD EVER BUY A KNIFE FROM OTHER THAN AN AUTHORIZED DEALER. If you have a better PRACTICAL solution than that, let's hear it. Otherwise we're just back to huffing and puffing and pulling threads off topic.
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No, no, no. I know your opinion. You would like ZT to do Hinderer Colab for a 3" super lite XM ;)

You are right though, buy only from an authorized dealer would do a lot to help. Unfortunately, there are people who are seeking out a counterfeit for whatever of the many different reasons they can come up with.
 
craytab said:
No, no, no. I know your opinion. You would like ZT to do Hinderer Colab for a 3" super lite XM ;)

You are right though, buy only from an authorized dealer would do a lot to help. Unfortunately, there are people who are seeking out a counterfeit for whatever of the many different reasons they can come up with.
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And I'm sure you'd agree that there's NOTHING you can do about those people. So I invite you to get on the ONLY BUY FROM AUTHORIZED DEALERS bandwagon with me and try to make a REAL difference.

And yes, dammit. I DO want ZT to do a Hinderer Colab for a 3" super lite XM. How on earth did you know that? :confused: ;)
 
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bld522 said:
And I'm sure you'd agree that there's NOTHING you can do about those people. So I invite you to get on the ONLY BUY FROM AUTHORIZED DEALERS bandwagon with me and try to make a REAL difference.

And yes, dammit. I DO want ZT to do a Hinderer Colab for a 3" super lite XM. How on earth did you know that? :confused: ;)
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Yup, nothing can be done for those people. I mean, look at this very thread as an example. If all my complaining even warns one noob or lurker away from these counterfeits all is not lost. I am in support of people buying from good dealers. The problem with that is I love the exchange too much to only buy from authorized dealers. I do educate myself and take precautions though. For someone who doesn't know their stuff, authorized dealer is the only way to go.

The ZT thing? That was just the word on the street.:p
 
craytab said:
Ruined for you by counterfeiting...
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Yep. Once a counterfeit thread, always a counterfeit thread. I've yet to see one survive the experience. Still, there may be hope if we just stop talking about it. ;)

How's this? I'll go first . . . . . . . . .
 
This thread has made me realize how difficult it is for me to keep my opinions to myself.

Thank you Bladeforums for making me realize that I'm actually a dick.
 
You have all been exiled here. If you wish to discuss Persians, you may. Do not return to the original thread to discuss counterfeits, etc.
 
If you recommend buying a Ganzo instead of a Benchmade 'because it's basically the same but you're only spending $20 instead of $150' or 'test it out to see if you like it before buying a BM', you're stealing potential buyers away from Benchmade. The exchange here is not stealing sales from Benchmade, those who want to try a knife out will buy it, the knife gets bought, if they don't like it they let someone else try it out. Benchmade doesn't care about the secondary sales because the knife's already bought and out there doing its job of converting folks to go and buy more Benchmades.

Ganzo is stealing from Benchmade, 100%, so promoting them is basically telling folks to steal from Benchmade.
 
Well hell, since this isn't off topic anymore...

Explain to me why companies like Ganzo, Sanrenmu, Enlan, etc. get lumped in with anonymous companies that make actual fake Spyderco Paramilitaries (just an example) and sell them as such. Ganzo doesn't say that their 712 is a Bedlam. Sanrenmu doesn't claim that their 710 is a Sebenza.

Are they not homages? If not, then what makes a "homage" different than what do you call Sanrenmus? If they're not homages, then is a fake P2 marketed as a legit Spyderco as bad as a Sanrenmu 710 looking like a Sebenza?

also

Esav Benyamin said:
You have all been exiled here. If you wish to discuss Persians, you may. Do not return to the original thread to discuss counterfeits, etc.
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For what it's worth, sorry it came to this.
 
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