COUNTERFEITS removed from "Persian" edc blades?

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nick21 said:
For what it's worth, sorry it came to this.
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Why? We now have a sanctuary where we can bleat in peace with the sure and certain knowledge that whatever we say will have utterly no impact on anyone . . . least of all the counterfeiters. Plus it sends a message to those with the sense to heed it that the mods . . . or at least one of them . . . may not want folks to keep mucking up threads in General with their off topic ranting. I, for one, couldn't be more pleased. :)
 
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bld522 said:
Why? We now have a sanctuary where we can bleat in peace with the sure and certain knowledge that whatever we say will have utterly no impact on anyone . . . least of all the counterfeiters. Plus it sends a message to those with the sense to heed it that the mods . . . or at least one of them . . . may not want folks to keep mucking up threads in General with their useless ranting. I, for one, couldn't be more pleased. :)
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I agree, and that mod would be me.
I am seeing a continual pattern of insults, off color comments, vulgarities, and plain old silliness that we have no use for.
Should this behavior continue, I am going to forgo the friendly private messages, I'm going to try something totally different. Infractions should get the point across nicely.

Some of you guys can't take a subtle hint, much less understand a direct request. For those individuals, this is going to be the very last time I ask people to calm down, discuss the topic and not one another. If we have to resort to extreme measures to preserve the IQ level of this forum, so be it. I'm not going to let people turn this place into a dumping ground for emotionally charged BS. You've ALL been warned. Some of the comments I've been reading in General Knife Discussion are very disappointing and are getting on the nerves of a lot of people. If you cannot follow rules, you will not last here.
 
Were any of my comments out of line? I might have gotten caught up in the heat of the moment...sorry to anyone I offended
 
We see two problems with what happened.

1. Off topic remarks. The thread was about knives, it was in the General Knife Discussion. The rants were about counterfeits. They did not belong in General Knife Discussion. If you see a topic and it reminds you of another, start the other in the forum it belongs.

2. The insults were unacceptable in any open discussion forum. Take them to Whine & Cheese if you like. Too many of you were just continuing shouting matches you saw shut down previously. Not cool.

We've got enough to do without babysitting bratty behavior.
 
Just to make it worse, I like Persians. I would have enjoyed the discussion a lot better if I hadn't had to dig it out to read it.
 
Well I for one apologize for derailing that thread. I may be an A-hole but Im not an idiot despite what some might think. So I do know I was part of the problem in the persian thread. I just hope people understand where I was coming from. I felt like I was being interrogated and berated for my choice to buy clones (which I accept that as I made i public knowledge and have to live with the consequences) in one thread and then i open another thread on a different subject and person talking down to me about my choices siting so many varied reasons for why decision was poor is in that other thread admitting to doing the exact same thing. I have no problem taking my licks from members who are above my selfish ways. But I have a hard time taking a lecture from someone who is guilty of the exact same offense and against my better judgement I felt the need to address it. I was wrong. But I think people need to be called out on being a hypocrite when they preach about morals and ethical codes of conducts yet feel that those rules for some reason dont apply to them.
 
I felt that I was being talked down to, as well. I won't name names but it's fairly obvious to anyone who read the topic

I'm hot headed admittedly so that's why I carried on
 
PURPLEDC said:
Well I for one apologize for derailing that thread. I may be an A-hole but Im not an idiot despite what some might think. So I do know I was part of the problem in the persian thread. I just hope people understand where I was coming from. I felt like I was being interrogated and berated for my choice to buy clones (which I accept that as I made i public knowledge and have to live with the consequences) in one thread and then i open another thread on a different subject and person talking down to me about my choices siting so many varied reasons for why decision was poor is in that other thread admitting to doing the exact same thing. I have no problem taking my licks from members who are above my selfish ways. But I have a hard time taking a lecture from someone who is guilty of the exact same offense and against my better judgement I felt the need to address it. I was wrong. But I think people need to be called out on being a hypocrite when they preach about morals and ethical codes of conducts yet feel that those rules for some reason dont apply to them.
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Please use the report function when people are taking pot shots at one another. It helps to keep things on topic. If you need to take jabs at one another, consider where you are posting before opening fire.
 
So is it okay to recommend a blatant counterfeit? If so, why? If not, what should be done about it?

I like Persian blades too. I contributed legit knives to that thread. Then you have folks recommending blatant knock offs.

Seems like bfc needs to make a call on this. Folks are promoting counterfeits out there. If bfc is cool with that then I won't mention it again. The community needs to know how to proceed.
 
craytab said:
So is it okay to recommend a blatant counterfeit? If so, why? If not, what should be done about it?

I like Persian blades too. I contributed legit knives to that thread. Then you have folks recommending blatant knock offs.

Seems like bfc needs to make a call on this. Folks are promoting counterfeits out there. If bfc is cool with that then I won't mention it again. The community needs to know how to proceed.
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^^^^^^
+10,000

I agree with Craytab, wholeheartedly on this this one!

Esav & RevDevil- and while I agree with that highly intellectual, Martian looking guy, who stated something along the lines, that counterfeiting can't be stopped...

PLEASE- not here on BladeForums!!! It's reprehensible issues like this, & people like this, that separate this great forum, from eBay. As for the member's who are on this forum blatantly condoning this crap...you need to do some introspection, & ask yourself: do I really want to be a part of this brotherhood?

What's next: sales of clones, in the sales forum???

Esav Benyamin said:
I like Persians. I would have enjoyed the discussion a lot better if I hadn't had to dig it out to read it.
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I like Persian's, too!

It's a shame, that these seemingly indignant, clone guys, were allowed to ruin an otherwise enjoyable thread, by posting such blasphemous pictures next to the real Made in the USA knives.
 
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For example, let's say a new person comes along, sees the recommendation of that ganzo bedlam or reads that review thread about the ganzo Lionsteel with axis lock. If no one says anything, the new person might think it is acceptable to purchase such things and even that bfc is in favor of such practices.

Is this what we want from our community?

I know that when I was new to blades, bfc was an integral force in steering me away from ganzos and the like. This what our community should be doing, not sweeping this stuff under the rug.
 
Furthermore-

I would really love to see the owner's of such reputable knife companies, such as, Spyderco, Benchmade, Microtech, Strider, Hinderer (just to name a few), weigh in here, & express THEIR feelings, regarding these Chinese knockoff's, that are costing them, countless million's of $$$$$$$$$.

How do you think one of these Executives would feel, if they stumbled upon one of these thread's & saw a picture of a clone, along side, one of their patented, Made In The USA, creative masterpieces?

NOT ON BLADEFORUMS- PLEASE!
 
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The tone of my initial reply could have been a bit better, but I think it is the responsibility of any person who recognizes a knockoff to make others aware of exactly what they are supporting. What happens when people start recommending fake CRKs or Striders in these threads(typically started by newbies)?
 
KELAMA said:
Furthermore-

I would really love to see the owner's of such reputable knife companies, such as, Spyderco, Benchmade, Microtech, Strider, Hinderer (just to name a few), weigh in here, & express THEIR feelings, regarding these Chinese knockoff's, that are costing them, countless million's of $$$$$$$$$.

How do you think one of these Executives would feel, if they stumbled upon one of these thread's & saw a picture of a clone, along side, one of their patented, Made In The USA, creative masterpieces?

NOT ON BLADEFORUMS- PLEASE!
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In the Spyderco Subforum there is a huge thread dedicated to fakes. Sal participates in it regularly there.
 
I think that there a few vital points missing in this discussion of clones.

This site gets a lot of support from dealers and manufactures who are both negatively effected by the consumption of clones/fakes. (If you don't agree, you skipped economics 101)
Just from a common sense standpoint, it would be wonderful then if us as members could respect that, and understand that we are hurting the very people that help this forum to continue to be a place where we can learn, discuss, and grow our love of all things with an edge.

Purchasing a clone/fake is a personal decision, and does not necessarily have to be a topic on this forum.
Especially if you can understand the paragraph above.

There is too much grey area however, and that is for some, a difficult discussion.
As an example, the Kevin John Venom II.
Kevin John (whatever that is) is one of the oldest producers of clones/fakes that I know of, most notably Striders.

To get a pass now, on a model that for all accounts is their own design, might be just too much for some people, myself included.

Then there is this whole transparency issue that bothers a ton of people.
Who makes what?
There are no facts to support either side of this argument, but my take on this (personal
opinion) is that some of the companies now making higher end Chinese knives that have been well excepted by the knife community, are the same that continue to pump out clones/fakes of iconic US brands.

It's a difficult subject. One that evokes a lot of passion, often for the larger political and economic ramifications we have seen happen over the past 30 years.

To keep things simple, lets just all try to follow the rules of this wonderful resource for knife maniacs, and maybe check that moral compass in terms of how what we say and do on BF effects those that play a large part in keeping this site going.
 
While people (myself included) have reported counterfeits to manufacturers, I don't think BF is the federal trade commission with the responsibility to enforce trademark laws. Grown ups here can buy what they want. Personally I don't see it much different than the members who blast other members for buying/enjoying Striders/Emersons/Microtechs/insert whatever brand some find offensive or a rip off or whatever.

People can have their opinions but don't need to kill perfectly good threads because they need to blast others with their endless posts from their perceived high ground. Pages of lecturing makes this forum a drag. For me, I come here to relax and enjoy my addiction and not dwell on the negative.

That's just my 2 cents and YMMV.
 
KELAMA said:
Furthermore-

I would really love to see the owner's of such reputable knife companies, such as, Spyderco, Benchmade, Microtech, Strider, Hinderer (just to name a few), weigh in here, & express THEIR feelings, regarding these Chinese knockoff's, that are costing them, countless million's of $$$$$$$$$.

How do you think one of these Executives would feel, if they stumbled upon one of these thread's & saw a picture of a clone, along side, one of their patented, Made In The USA, creative masterpieces?

NOT ON BLADEFORUMS- PLEASE!
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I couldn't agree more.

Let's say you came up with a design for a knife, hired people, put in the R&D and the initial investment into equipment and production with zero guarantees, and your hard work was good and lucky enough to make it.

Then you see your design, work, and risk pop up on the internet for a $ amount you could never produce it for (insert paying fair wages, marketing, initial and concurring production costs, your right to enjoy the benefits of your success)

You did all the work to make it successful, and now 'someone' you can't touch is going to make money off YOU.

There is nothing right about that in any way.
And it should never be promoted here, whether it's a lock design or an entire knife.
 
+1000 to both Craytab and Kelma. This forum and its users do not have the power to stop knife counterfeiting. However, we do not need to legitimize it.

There are some grey areas (copied designs, use of features that are patented in the US but not in the knives' country of origin), and IMHO intellectual conversation about this cool. However, any conversation that promotes or legitimizes illegal activity that damages the knife industry should be out of bounds.

Regardless of how the mods decide to act, I appreciate them considering this issue.
 
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