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bld522 said:
So how's your Chinese-made knife review coming along, Ken? :) I can't wait to see the make and model you've decided to regale us with. Please do go on . . .
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I'm afraid THAT is what we call "deflecting" an argument. Unable to provide a refute one jump to a topic utterly irrelevant to the question.
Remaining in denial that what I've stated about the consumer's view of Chinese manufactured knives is not going convince anyone that your view,
presumably that certain Chinese Knives are high quality is correct.
 
bld522 said:
And yet somehow, 1.4 billion people manage to survive there.
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History is replete with examples of millions surviving all kinds of regimes and less than ideal conditions. Heck, millions survive in the DPRK today, that is not something to brag about either.

And their population just keeps growing and growing and growing. A government with no regard for human rights would have converted at least half of them into Soylent Green by now just to reduce the surplus population, don't you think?
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Just look a China's population controls of the last 25 years and what that has wrought including abortions. Special benefits if couples agreed to have only one child. More than one child equated to being taxed up to fifty percent of income and/or loss of employment. Unplanned pregnancies without the proper authorization terminated. Yeah, a veritable utopia that.

China's great scheme of industrial and commercial espionage, their piracy and copy of trademarked commercial items, and their poor business ethics are enough to turn my away from every knife made in the People's Republic of China. Enjoy your Chinese knives, but be careful looking down your nose at those that refuse to buy them, carry them, or use them. They likely have valid reasons.
 
bld522 said:
Nope. If you can't talk about the knives from your own personal experience, you have nothing to say to me. In case you haven't noticed, there are plenty of people around here who can. And they're all pretty much singing the same tune. So why would I want to listen to you instead of them?
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Because I'm not calling all or your Chinese made knives low quality. Therefore personal experience with them one way or another is irrelevant.
Ad whether a person wns one or a thousand makes no difference. You are deflecting.
Anyway, it's obvious that I have presented a fact, that consumers in general consider Chinese made knives to be low quality, hence US knife companies
offer them as their lowest priced products. Which in turn is why they sell. The higher end products are invariably manufactured in the US, Taiwan. Japan or
elsewhere. And they are priced higher not just because production cost is higher but the company recognizes that the consumer will be willing to pay for what
they perceive as higher quality. As an aside, there's nothing wrong or disgraceful in accepting a point made by someone else if it can not be refuted. In fact
doing so usually improves your credibility in future discussions. Just a friendly tip. :)
 
leghog said:
China's great scheme of industrial and commercial espionage, their piracy and copy of trademarked commercial items, and their poor business ethics are enough to turn my away from every knife made in the People's Republic of China. Enjoy your Chinese knives, but be careful looking down your nose at those that refuse to buy them, carry them, or use them. They likely have valid reasons.
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I'll relinquish that point if you'll admit that their refusal may not have anything to do with the quality of the knives themselves.
 
So everybody see what's going on here? The only way for these folks to try to defeat me is to pull me off topic. And if I refuse to give in, they just get madder and madder and madder.

This is a knife discussion forum, boys and girls. It says so right in the title. If you can't talk about knives here, you're in the wrong forum. If you don't like a political system, take it to the Political Forum. That's why we have one. And if you've gotten to the point where all you want to do is strangle me, take it to Whine & Cheese. They'll welcome you there with open arms. Thanks. :)
 
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I own a few Taiwanese knives, and that's about as close as I'll get to owning Chinese; it's really a matter of principle with me...I buy American or European knives, and limit anything made in China to my Apple hardware, and whatever else I buy or own, and that I need, that just isn't made here in the US of A. If I can buy American, I will, even if it costs more.
 
bld522 said:
So everybody see what's going on here? The only way for these folks to try to defeat me is to pull me off topic. And if I refuse to give in, they just get madder and madder and madder.
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Victory or defeat on the Internet is like . . . ah, hell. It's no longer politically correct to use the analogy I so enjoy, so I won't. In any case, people feel strongly about this stuff, everyone wants a voice, and honestly, nobody wants to have their opinion invalidated. It's all a matter of how much homework someone wants to do to back up their opinion. Personally, I think Ken raises some good points, as do you, but when all is said and done, what is very much a decision by one person to buy based on quality or value is for someone else based on personal politics, moral compass, etc. Me, I like knives. I consider many of China's governmental policies to be reprehensible, but I also put Middle Eastern gas in my South Korean vehicle while wearing clothes made in numerous Asian, African and Central American countries. It's a global economy, and if some of the knives I like come from a part of the globe whose policies I dislike, well . . . I really like knives.

This is a knife discussion forum, boys and girls. It says so right in the title. If you can't talk about knives here, you're in the wrong forum. If you don't like a political system, take it to the Political Forum. That's why we have one. And if you've gotten to the point where all you want to do is strangle me, take it to Whine & Cheese. They'll welcome you there with open arms. Thanks. :)
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Better to strangle than stab. We don't want to create a bad impression of knife owners by chopping our own kind into little pieces. Especially not with knives created by evil regimes.
 
Inazone said:
. . . when all is said and done, what is very much a decision by one person to buy based on quality or value is for someone else based on personal politics, moral compass, etc.
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I couldn't possibly agree with you more. The problem is when people confuse the two. Far too often, those who refuse to buy products based on their personal politics, moral compass, etc., get so worked up, they start to believe that the quality or value of an item is somehow affected by them. That's preposterous, of course. And when these poor deluded souls start blathering about how this knife or that knife is junk because it comes from someplace they don't like and I know darn well they've never seen one let alone own one, I really have to draw the line. Talk about moral compass, those people really ought to be ashamed of themselves. The only thing that's junk at that point is what's coming out of their mouths.

Inazone said:
Better to strangle than stab. We don't want to create a bad impression of knife owners by chopping our own kind into little pieces. Especially not with knives created by evil regimes.
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Darn. And here I agreed with you because I thought you were going to let me off Scott free. :( ;)
 
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I mainly stuck with USA my whole life, and any future knives I buy will be USA made only.
I don't have a choice with many items, but have plenty with knives.

I have bought a few in my life from other countries, but never China. The only one(non US) I carry at times is a Sage 1.
 
I prefer custom built knives at this point. I really like supporting craftsmen. But it was not always that way. I have owned Reate, Kizer and handled a knife made by the famous Kevin John ;). I never had issues with the quality. I fact, for the price, I was pleasantly surprised.

My biggest issue with people that want to get all political...are you ok with American companies producing knives from China? Arguably the Chinese knife business was created by American companies outsourcing their knives from China. Or at the very least sped up their learning curve and providing funds for them to expand and become the powerhouse they are today. So then shouldn't you boycott some of the favorite American brands for helping to awaken this sleeping giant?

Sorry if this is too political, just wanted to say this once, I've held off on the last 3 or so other threads. ;)
 
SurpriseGoat said:
I prefer custom built knives at this point. I really like supporting craftsmen. But it was not always that way. I have owned Reate, Kizer and handled a knife made by the famous Kevin John ;). I never had issues with the quality. I fact, for the price, I was pleasantly surprised.

My biggest issue with people that want to get all political...are you ok with American companies producing knives from China? Arguably the Chinese knife business was created by American companies outsourcing their knives from China. Or at the very least sped up their learning curve and providing funds for them to expand and become the powerhouse they are today. So then shouldn't you boycott some of the favorite American brands for helping to awaken this sleeping giant?

Sorry if this is too political, just wanted to say this once, I've held off on the last 3 or so other threads. ;)
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Now this is a great topic for discussion. It's mildly political, but leaves out the whole bias towards one country or another while still remaining to be on topic about knives.

Personally, I've never thought much about this. I do find it ironic how somebody who is a die-hard American knife guy to support a branch like Zero Tolerance. With ZT being under the umbrella of KAI, there is no doubt that a portion of ZT's profits help support the knives that KAI is producing in China.
 
SurpriseGoat said:
I have owned Reate, Kizer and handled a knife made by the famous Kevin John ;). I never had issues with the quality. In fact, for the price, I was pleasantly surprised.
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You and me both! And thank you for posting your impressions of knives you have personally owned and handled. How refreshing!!! :thumbup:
 
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SurpriseGoat said:
My biggest issue with people that want to get all political...are you ok with American companies producing knives from China? Arguably the Chinese knife business was created by American companies outsourcing their knives from China. Or at the very least sped up their learning curve and providing funds for them to expand and become the powerhouse they are today. So then shouldn't you boycott some of the favorite American brands for helping to awaken this sleeping giant?
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I wouldn't. But then I'm in it strictly for the knives, so I might not be the best person to ask. You may want to check in with someone whose moral compass and personal politics are a little stronger than mine. ;) :D
 
In Heaven, the police are British, the lovers French, the mechanics German, the chefs Italian, and it is all organized by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the lovers Swiss, the mechanics French, the chefs British, and it is all organized by the Italians.
 
I buy US made whenever possible, have a couple of Chinese made Kershaws that are of expected quality and one Taiwanese Spyderco with awesome F&F.
 
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