Country of origin

[Quiet]

"The Warrior One is manufactured by Reate Knives in China and meets the rigorous specifications Mr. Mah sets for all his knives."

I'm sorry? What? What was that???

Sorry, I get all of the Chinese companies confused. I'll own that. :thumbup:

 

[bld522]

I suspect that a large number of those 1.4 billion, if given the opportunity to share their opinions unsuppressed and without fear of reprisal, would have some pretty harsh criticisms of how they "manage to survive" under China's communist regime. Freedom of speech doesn't exist there, and in many parts of China, conditions are in line with those of North Korea. Also consider that many Chinese companies are state-owned, so buying their products is putting money back in the government's hands.

Ah yes. Life is a game. And denial is more than just a river in Africa.

So what IS?

1. China isn't going anywhere.
2. China isn't likely to adopt a form of government you find favorable.
3. China exerts and will continue to exert a powerful influence on your life and mine.

Let the good times roll.

 

[bld522]

Sorry, I get all of the Chinese companies confused. I'll own that. :thumbup:

Yep. Unfortunate but not surprising. Once one separates themselves from others and identifies the others as "bad" or "inferior" or worse still, "dangerous", making hasty and inaccurate generalizations about them is all but inevitable. That behavior is a part of the human condition that inevitably leads us to our shared stupidity.

 

[Quiet]

Yep. Unfortunate but not surprising. Once one separates themselves from others and identifies the others as "bad" or "inferior" or worse still, "dangerous", making hasty and inaccurate generalizations about them is all but inevitable. That kind of behavior is a part of the human condition that leads us to our shared stupidity.

(facepalm) and here we go with the armchair psychology.

I wonder how all of the companies who have had their IP stolen by Chinese government sponsored hackers, or by Chinese partner companies feel about Chinese business practices.

My views are anything but "hasty" or "inaccurate", sorry. Gah, ignorant comments dragged me back in. Stepping away from this thread...uh-gain.

 

[bld522]

I thought you were going away? Thanks for coming back. Now where was I? Oh yes.

Welcome to the global economy. Rail against if if you must, but to quote The Borg, resistance is futile. You WILL be assimilated. (Actually, you already HAVE BEEN assimilated. You're just not aware of it yet.)

Life is a game . . .

Oh wait. Quiet is gone again. TTFN, Quiet.

 

[LX_Emergency]

I suspect that a large number of those 1.4 billion, if given the opportunity to share their opinions unsuppressed and without fear of reprisal, would have some pretty harsh criticisms of how they "manage to survive" under China's communist regime. Freedom of speech doesn't exist there, and in many parts of China, conditions are in line with those of North Korea. Also consider that many Chinese companies are state-owned, so buying their products is putting money back in the government's hands.

I have some friends that recently went BACK to that terrible place called china. They quite like it there. They liked it over here in europe just fine. But Job opportunities were just better in China for them.

And if you're comparing it to North Korea then you don't seem to know much about North Korea....might want to read up on that a little more. NK is hell for any and all of the poorer populace.

 

[bld522]

Yep. As I said before, once one separates themselves from others and identifies the others as "bad" or "inferior" or worse still, "dangerous", making hasty and inaccurate generalizations about them is all but inevitable.

 

[Boris74]

I have experienced many instances of hearing people say "Schrade is a good knife"

That's because they are. The one advantage they have over other brands is cost. The two I bought cost less than the one USA made blade in the same class of knives I have. The two are as good a blade as the USA one and one I have to admit is better.

Maybe you should listen instead of getting emotional.

I grew up on Schrade knives, still have a couple originals. Towards the end of the USA days they were turning out junk, about right on par with the junk they first sold from China. They were just copying what they last turned out in the USA. Took them a while, but the quality is back and a more diverse line.

So get ready, Schrade is a good knife.

 

[KenHash]

While it's true that generalizations are inaccurate, they usually form when there are repeated incidents reported that suggests a pattern. Chinese made products have
earned a reputation for poor quality over the last two decades so naturally that affects people's views. In all honesty, how many of us would fly in an airplane made in China? Or own and drive a car made in China? Bearing in mind all the other options available on the market? How many LEOs would willingly carry a Chinese made firearm in the line of duty? Now here's something interesting, the middle and upper class Chinese in China prefer to buy Western and Japanese brands. Because they think domestic brands are poor quality.

"Chinese demand is also high because Western products are perceived as having higher quality. Chinese brands have had a lot of negative PR over the last few years. Even now, when Chinese producers have improved, the damaged reputation remains. While some Chinese consumers are interested in the total brand perception, many keep insisting that Western products are of higher quality."
https://www.moduslink.com/chinese-demand-for-foreign-brand-products/

My point here is that if Chinese consumers in China have doubts about "Chinese quality", how can one criticize consumers in other countries for feeling the very same way? My Chinese (from China) business acquaintances wear Rolex watches and rave over Japanese kitchen knives.

 

[bld522]

True that. But China remains the 800 pound gorilla in the room. Don't believe me? Try this:

Identify every product you own that contains a component or subassembly manufactured in China and throw them all away. Then come on back and let me know how that worked out for you.

Chinese products are going to continue to improve. And it's only a matter of time before their damaged reputation starts to dissipate. With quality knives coming out of companies like Kizer and Reate, it already has for me.

 

[davek14]

That's because they are. The one advantage they have over other brands is cost. The two I bought cost less than the one USA made blade in the same class of knives I have. The two are as good a blade as the USA one and one I have to admit is better.

Maybe you should listen instead of getting emotional.

I grew up on Schrade knives, still have a couple originals. Towards the end of the USA days they were turning out junk, about right on par with the junk they first sold from China. They were just copying what they last turned out in the USA. Took them a while, but the quality is back and a more diverse line.

So get ready, Schrade is a good knife.

You actually might be right. I have heard the newer Schrades have improved a lot in quality. I don't know if they match the older Schrade carbon steel though, I haven't heard many people speak to that.

I'll get around to trying a newer one oneday.

The point of names being bought and products inferior to the original being put out under that name is still valid though. The main point I was making was that it is not the manufacturer at fault. It is the company who bought the name.

 

[Alnamvet68]

If the country of origin is a concern for you (it definitely is for me), then perhaps this list may be of help...http://apg2k.hegewisch.net/wow-6.html

 

[Etna]

True that. But China remains the 800 pound gorilla in the room. Don't believe me? Try this:

Identify every product you own that contains a component or subassembly manufactured in China and throw them all away. Then come on back and let me know how that worked out for you.

Chinese products are going to continue to improve. And it's only a matter of time before their damaged reputation starts to dissipate. With quality knives coming out of companies like Kizer and Reate, it already has for me.

Don't forget about the sub-$25 segment which is being mopped up by the likes of inexpensive-yet-respectable-quality brands such as Sanrenmu, Enlan, Inron, Harnds, Tekut and Ganzo, many of which have already been favourably reviewed by other forumers in here.

 

[KenHash]

True that. But China remains the 800 pound gorilla in the room. Don't believe me? Try this:

Identify every product you own that contains a component or subassembly manufactured in China and throw them all away. Then come on back and let me know how that worked out for you.

Chinese products are going to continue to improve. And it's only a matter of time before their damaged reputation starts to dissipate. With quality knives coming out of companies like Kizer and Reate, it already has for me.

Maybe yes and maybe no. At this moment while this thread is going on China's economy is being watched by the world. Their boom has peaked, growth has slowed, their stock market drops have negatively affected markets throughout he world and there are tons of business site articles talking about the drop in foreign investment. Which has not dropped just because of the slowdown in Cia's economy but the heavy handed manner in which the Chinese Government has dealt with foreign firms. Yes China is big, a quarter of the world's population. But that alone doesn't guarantee it's future.
Perhaps if China was a democracy and not a one party dictatorship under the Communist Party of China, things would be different and I might agree with your view. But right now China remains a totalitarian state on a massive military buildup and territorial expansion program which has caused the United State's "pivot to Asia". Right now China politically is the bogyman of all Asia.
We know how Chinese made products filled the store shelves during the alleged "Peaceful Rise" of China. But now, two decades later, knowing it's not so peaceful, it's manufacturing costs rising and a swarm of countries waiting to take up the slack, and the slowing Chinese domestic economy, I believe it would an error to assume a linear progression into the foreseeable future.
It's good that you are a fan of some Chinese knife manufacturers. As there are many Chinese who would avoid them and go for Western and Japanese brands.

 

[Boris74]

You actually might be right. I have heard the newer Schrades have improved a lot in quality. I don't know if they match the older Schrade carbon steel though, I haven't heard many people speak to that.

I'll get around to trying a newer one oneday.

The point of names being bought and products inferior to the original being put out under that name is still valid though. The main point I was making was that it is not the manufacturer at fault. It is the company who bought the name.

The one 1095 Schrade I have left that is a USA blade acts just like the Chinese 1095 I have. Don't notice a lick of difference. The stainless, it blows away the stainless Schrade offered in their USA made lines.

I get your point on the names thing. It don't bother me because I inform myself before the purchase of tools like knives and so on. I'm not worried about the people who allow themselves to be fooled.

 

[bld522]

If the country of origin is a concern for you (it definitely is for me), then perhaps this list may be of help...http://apg2k.hegewisch.net/wow-6.html

Good find! That's actually a cool list for those who care. Alas, country of origin is not a concern for me. I've found that good knives can come from anywhere and bad knives can come from anywhere. So when it comes to purchasing knives, I tend to trust the judgement of those whose opinions I respect more than I do lists like that one. Still, I respect the work that went into constructing it.

 

[bld522]

Their stock market drops have negatively affected markets throughout the world.

Ah yes. As I was saying, welcome to the global economy. It's hard not to have an impact with a population of 1.4 billion people.

Perhaps if China was a democracy and not a one party dictatorship under the Communist Party of China, things would be different . . .

Life is a game.

We know how Chinese made products filled the store shelves during the alleged "Peaceful Rise" of China. But now, two decades later, knowing it's not so peaceful, it's manufacturing costs rising and a swarm of countries waiting to take up the slack, and the slowing Chinese domestic economy, I believe it would an error to assume a linear progression into the foreseeable future.

Very good. Something we can agree on. Economies don't expand in a linear fashion. Anyone who believed that China could do so ad infinitum was a fool or an idiot.

It's good that you are a fan of some Chinese knife manufacturers. As there are many Chinese who would avoid them and go for Western and Japanese brands.

Perhaps Chinese knife manufacturers like Kizer and Reate aren't marketing their products to the Chinese market. If they develop the reputation they deserve here in the US first, they may be able to leverage that to help them sell their products closer to home.

 

[Marco Hartland]

Looks - Quality - Price, I dont care about the rest

 

[Inazone]

I have some friends that recently went BACK to that terrible place called china. They quite like it there. They liked it over here in europe just fine. But Job opportunities were just better in China for them.

And if you're comparing it to North Korea then you don't seem to know much about North Korea....might want to read up on that a little more. NK is hell for any and all of the poorer populace.

Undoubtedly, some parts of China are great, just as some are not, and your friends would surely not be going back if it was to be worse off than they were while in Europe. You can't use a broad brush to describe a country with a population as large and diverse as China's, and I didn't word my previous post in a way that suggests that things are bad all around. However, between human rights issues throughout the country, extreme pollution in some cities and extreme poverty in some rural regions, there are major problems affecting huge numbers of people that we don't hear about very often if at all. The disparity in infrastructure between urban and rural areas is an exaggerated version of, for instance, rural American communities compared to cities.

Also worth noting is that China uses residency permits to control the movement of people between areas, which means that people living in impoverished regions can't simply move to the city to find a job. The government needs to OK the move. This not only affects poor regions, but also those of ethnic minorities who are effectively restricted to living in the region dictated by the government. I've watched a couple documentaries showing this, but I don't recall the names. In any case, when I mention North Korea, it's because many of the rural areas of China (again, many times inhabited by ethnic minorities) have little or no modern infrastructure, are subject to more hardships due to famine and natural disaster than other parts of China, and really have no recourse that would improve their conditions.

All of this said, I own plenty of Chinese knives. Some of them (Kizer) are excellent and many others (most Kershaws, some CRKT and Boker) are good for the money. I recognize that Chinese workers are quite capable of producing quality knives, as well as all sorts of other products. I'm not going to kid myself into believing that other items I own - electronics, clothing, household goods - are made in countries where the working conditions, wages and freedoms of workers are any better.

 

[bld522]

All of this said, I own plenty of Chinese knives. Some of them (Kizer) are excellent and many others (most Kershaws, some CRKT and Boker) are good for the money. I recognize that Chinese workers are quite capable of producing quality knives, as well as all sorts of other products.

Yes indeed. That's precisely the kind of testimonial a knife aficionado like myself wants to hear. And nothing . . . absolutely nothing . . . beats the voice of experience! :thumbup:

Anyone else want to weigh in on their own personal hands-on experiences with Chinese-made knives? Or shall we return to China-bashing? I, for one, vote for the former.