Country of origin

[Insipid Moniker]

Yes indeed. That's precisely the kind of testimonial a knife aficionado like myself wants to hear. And nothing . . . absolutely nothing . . . beats the voice of experience! :thumbup:

Anyone else want to weigh in on their own personal hands-on experiences with Chinese-made knives?

Oh, my Kizer is certainly not my favorite knife, as they went for more obtuse grinds and the cutting geometry isn't the best, but it is the best value in my collection by such a broad margin as to be almost laughable. And value is almost exclusively what I look for when I buy.

 

[bld522]

Grinds can be fixed, of course. And your value statement mirrors my own. I just picked up my second Kizer (a Tomcat Splinter) and I love it! It's a really nice gentleman's folder and a terrific value for the money. :thumbup:

 

[KenHash]

Here's another interesting thought, although I have to backtrack on history a bit. And it addresses the concept that the world's view of Chinese manufacturing quality will get better in time. Up through and immediately following WWII, most knives sold in the US were "made in USA" with American steel. When Germany started exporting steel the US makers started using that. When the Allied Occupation ended at allowed Germany, Italy, Japan to make weapons again, US companies imported "Made in Germany" knives. Later Made in Italy become common. In the 1970s the US companies turned to Japan. So, "Made in Japan" became commonplace and what was first derided as a cheap flimsy import soon began to gain respect for quality. Examples would be the Gerber Silver Knight 1977, CS Master Tanto 1981 and SOG S1 Bowie 1986, AL Mar's Seki knives, etc. But the fact is that Japan lost it's position as the number one exporter of cutlery to the United States as early as 1994. To guess who? China. This means that Chinese manufactured knives have been sold in the U.S. now for 21 years., yet as OEM knives they still fill the lowest level of US companies' product lines, not the top. And they have not gained the respect of consumers as evidenced by the numerous opinions expressed in this thread. All of which then begs the question of on what basis can we assume that Chinese made knives will gain that respect in the future?
Famous knife making centers around the world, Toledo Spain, Sheffield England, Solingen Germany and Seki Japan all have long histories of making blades before the modern era. In contrast, the largest cutlery center in China, Yiangjian was literally created by the PRC Government through the establishment of State Owned factories.
This was not a historical center of craftsmen but a planned production facility on a mass scale. In time the Chinese Government got out of the State run companies and sold them all to civilian interests who own the factories there today. The US of course doesn't have a hundreds of years old history because the country itself isn't that old. But America has lead the world in knife development and is the one biggest influence on the knife industry globally. So from this perspective, it may not be so hard
to understand why modern knives made in China do not seem to have much consumer respect. And, returning to original point,, is it reasonable to assume that such respect will be gained in the future?

 

[Boris74]

Here's another interesting thought, although I have to backtrack on history a bit. And it addresses the concept that the world's view of Chinese manufacturing quality will get better in time. Up through and immediately following WWII, most knives sold in the US were "made in USA" with American steel. When Germany started exporting steel the US makers started using that. When the Allied Occupation ended at allowed Germany, Italy, Japan to make weapons again, US companies imported "Made in Germany" knives. Later Made in Italy become common. In the 1970s the US companies turned to Japan. So, "Made in Japan" became commonplace and what was first derided as a cheap flimsy import soon began to gain respect for quality. Examples would be the Gerber Silver Knight 1977, CS Master Tanto 1981 and SOG S1 Bowie 1986, AL Mar's Seki knives, etc. But the fact is that Japan lost it's position as the number one exporter of cutlery to the United States as early as 1994. To guess who? China. This means that Chinese manufactured knives have been sold in the U.S. now for 21 years., yet as OEM knives they still fill the lowest level of US companies' product lines, not the top. And they have not gained the respect of consumers as evidenced by the numerous opinions expressed in this thread. All of which then begs the question of on what basis can we assume that Chinese made knives will gain that respect in the future?
Famous knife making centers around the world, Toledo Spain, Sheffield England, Solingen Germany and Seki Japan all have long histories of making blades before the modern era. In contrast, the largest cutlery center in China, Yiangjian was literally created by the PRC Government through the establishment of State Owned factories.
This was not a historical center of craftsmen but a planned production facility on a mass scale. In time the Chinese Government got out of the State run companies and sold them all to civilian interests who own the factories there today. The US of course doesn't have a hundreds of years old history because the country itself isn't that old. But America has lead the world in knife development and is the one biggest influence on the knife industry globally. So from this perspective, it may not be so hard
to understand why modern knives made in China do not seem to have much consumer respect. And, returning to original point,, is it reasonable to assume that such respect will be gained in the future?

Your post only represents emotions felt by the few knife owners world wide that are online. There's like a dozen or so Chinese knife haters. Offline the picture is much different or there would not be so many Chinese knives in circulation. That future you mentioned is now. If you don't believe it buy a $30.00 large fixed blade by Schrade and compare it to an Ontario, Esee or other much more expensive USA 1095 blade. By compare I'm talking actually use it, don't just look at the made in part. For production knives their high end is just as good and in most cases better than high end production knives made in the USA.

Like another member here pointed out, you need to use and handle them to realize it but we get back to the whole emotions thing and people refuse to use or handle them based completely on fear that they are wrong and actually might agree, China is turning out knives as good as and in most cases better than the rest of the world and doing it for less consumer cost.

Just because a few emotional people online post it, don't make it so. Using them for me has completely blown up any negative a non user/owner has claimed online.

 

[bld522]

. . . is it reasonable to assume that such respect will be gained in the future?

It will if companies like Kizer and Reate keep putting out the kind of quality knives they're producing right now. And just for the record, how many Chinese-made knives do YOU own?

Just because a few emotional people online post it, don't make it so. Using them for me has completely blown up any negative a non user/owner has claimed online.

Touché. The vast majority of those who rail against Chinese-made knives and call them junk have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. And they're pretty easy to spot, too. They usually blather on and on about everything except the knives themselves. Why? Because they have no personal experience to drawn on, that's why. They're just trying to drown out those of us that do.

 

[KenHash]

So please tell me which US Knife Company has Chinese manufactured knives in their top of the line models?
Or do the companies relegate them their lowest (price) product line?

Clearly I'm raising some irritating questions as I'm presenting a non-emotional rational point of view and I'm being called a China-hater
and asked if I have own Chinese made knives rather than getting reasoned answers. I'm not calling them junk or not junk, I'm
talking about the consumer view of their quality. I'm looking for reasoned opinions not a pointless argument.

 

[Tachead01]

It will if companies like Kizer and Reate keep putting out the kind of quality knives they're producing right now. And just for the record, how many Chinese-made knives do YOU own?


Touché. The vast majority of those who rail against Chinese-made knives and call them junk have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. And they're pretty easy to spot, too. They usually write lengthy posts about everything except the knives themselves. Why? Because they have no personal experience to drawn on, that's why. They're just trying to drown out those of us that do.

I think it is the politics/economy of buying Chinese that turns most off, not the perceived lack of quality. Chinese companies have proved they can make high quality products when the are asked/paid to(a lot of the time it is the companies that ask for the "cheap" though). Most people I know just don't want to give money to a militaristic, overpopulated, oppressive, communist country who may one day cause problems for the whole world with pockets lined by our money. And, that's not even touching on outsourcing products that could be made just as well here all while supporting our economy.

 

[bld522]

I'm not interested in how knife companies position their Chinese-made knives, Ken. And your bias against them is as clear as day.

The only thing I care about are the knives, and the Chinese-made knives I've purchased speak for themselves. Sooner or later, consumers are going to wake up to that fact and your voice will become little more than a whimper.

If you don't own a Chinese-made knife and you can't share your personal experience of it with me, you have nothing of value to say to me. But don't let that slow you down. I'm sure those folks who, like yourself, are engaged in a strategy of deflecting the conversation away from the knives in an attempt to stifle the truth will be fascinated by whatever else you have to say.

 

[Hackenslash]

If the country of origin is a concern for you (it definitely is for me), then perhaps this list may be of help...http://apg2k.hegewisch.net/wow-6.html

Thank you for this link, that's an awesome reference source.

I don't use country of origin as a divining point, but I do consider reputation of manufacturer. I'm comfortable buying Kershaw, Spyderco and/or Cold Steel manufactured overseas because I have a degree of trust in those corporate entities to manufacture in a responsible fashion. I have a degree of trust in Kizer and Reate, not due to some sort of inner knowledge of the condition of their factory floor, but how transparent and communicative their representatives have been with American knife enthusiasts and the alliances they're making with US based leaders of our industry. I can't say the same for some unknown and unidentified knifemaker from Pakistan or China that peddles their wares on Aliexpress. I like to think that my knife purchase is likely to have harmed no one (until much later when used in emergency self-defense, lol).

Purchasing based on geographic limitations can lead you into the very error you're thinking you're preventing. Moderation in all things, especially political opinions, is a desirable end...but...not...in...knife...buying. Go crazy nutz with prejudice on that stuff.

 

[K.O.D.]

The main reason I turned to Chinese knives is that its very hard to find "made in USA" knives that use surgical steel.

 

[bld522]

Haha. You are familiar with the Case brand of USA-made pocketknives, are you not?

 

[Tachead01]

I'm not interested in how knife companies position their Chinese-made knives, Ken. And your bias against them is as clear as day.

The only thing I care about are the knives, and the Chinese-made knives I've purchased speak for themselves. Sooner or later, consumers are going to wake up to that fact and your voice will become little more than a whimper.

If you don't own a Chinese-made knife and you can't share your personal experience of it with me, you have nothing of value to say to me. But don't let that slow you down. I'm sure those folks who, like yourself, are engaged in a strategy of deflecting the conversation away from the knives in an attempt to stifle the truth will be fascinated by whatever else you have to say.

You know this is a thread about country of origin right?

Your theory of one voice can't make a difference is brutal too. Pacifism and beliefs like that are exactly why nothing changes and the world keeps going down hill. I think you should move to China dude. Their oppressive, communist ways sound like they might suit your way of thinking. Plus, you can get all the Chinese knives that you heart desire for even cheaper lol.

 

[Boris74]

So please tell me which US Knife Company has Chinese manufactured knives in their top of the line models?
Or do the companies relegate them their lowest (price) product line?

Clearly I'm raising some irritating questions as I'm presenting a non-emotional rational point of view and I'm being called a China-hater
and asked if I have own Chinese made knives rather than getting reasoned answers. I'm not calling them junk or not junk, I'm
talking about the consumer view of their quality. I'm looking for reasoned opinions not a pointless argument.

Lol. People recognize they are quality blades, so they buy them. Don't get more simple than that. Your contention is they are a no go based on origin. That is what's pointless.

 

[bld522]

You know this is a thread about country of origin right?

Yes. But what forum are we in? Unless I'm mistaken, the primary category of this particular forum is "knife specific discussion" and the secondary category is "general knife discussion". Is it just me, or do you gather from the titles of those forums that maybe, just maybe, we should be talking about knives? I'm not trying to be obtuse or anything. I'm just trying to read the writing on the wall.

Oh, and just for the record, what you think of me is none of my business.

 

[link2derek]

I STRONGLY prefer USA-made (especially for my traditional folders and fixed blades); however, Spyderco's Taiwan-Taichung factory has very good quality and QC. I no longer buy anything made in China - and not just blades, anything.

 

[KenHash]

Lol. People recognize they are quality blades, so they buy them. Don't get more simple than that. Your contention is they are a no go based on origin. That is what's pointless.

As far as I can tell most if not all US companies offer their China manufactured knives as the lowest priced products. I've asked for contradictory examples but haven't heard peep. This supports the position that people are NOT buying Chinese manufactured knives because they are recognized as "Quality Blades" but are in fact buying them because they are bring recognized as "Inexpensive Blades". And you obviously haven't grasped "my contention".
My contention is simply that most consumers do not recognize Chinese made knives as high quality and furthermore, the US companies that sell them recognize this and market them accordingly. Nothing to be "LOL" ing about here unless you can present something that actually refutes this.

 

[bld522]

I STRONGLY prefer USA-made (especially for my traditional folders and fixed blades); however, Spyderco's Taiwan-Taichung factory has very good quality and QC. I no longer buy anything made in China - and not just blades, anything.

Really? No televisions? No cell phones? No computers? No automobiles? I guess you really ARE in the woods.

 

[bld522]

As far as I can tell most if not all US companies offer their China manufactured knives as the lowest priced products. I've asked for contradictory examples but haven't heard peep. This supports the position that people are NOT buying Chinese manufactured knives because they are recognized as "Quality Blades" but are in fact buying them because they are bring recognized as "Inexpensive Blades". And you obviously haven't grasped "my contention".
My contention is simply that most consumers do not recognize Chinese made knives as high quality and furthermore, the US companies that sell them recognize this and market them accordingly. Nothing to be "LOL" ing about here unless you can present something that actually refutes this.

So how's your Chinese-made knife review coming along, Ken? I can't wait to see the make and model you've decided to regale us with. Please do go on . . .

 

[KenHash]

I'm not interested in how knife companies position their Chinese-made knives, Ken. And your bias against them is as clear as day.

So you are not interested in even thinking about why Chinese made knives are the lowest priced product line in most if not all US Knife Companies' offerings.
Yet you call ME biased? I'm not deflecting anything, I have presented an argument that effectively shows that among consumers Chinese manufactured knives
in general are not considered high quality and that the US Knife Companies recognize this. Doesn't mean that they aren't high quality, just that they aren't recognized as such. Your argument proving this wrong is welcomed. But not name calling. Thanks.

 

[bld522]

So you are not interested in even thinking about why Chinese made knives are the lowest priced product line in most if not all US Knife Companies' offerings.

Nope. If you can't talk about the knives from your own personal experience, you have nothing to say to me. In case you haven't noticed, there are plenty of people around here who can. And they're all pretty much singing the same tune. So why would I want to listen to you?