CPM154 and the future

PM steels are inherently tougher due to the fine dispersion of carbides. Thus, they can be run harder (increasing edge retention) while maintaining a good level of toughness.

ETA: Of course if Spyderco simply left the hardness at where they do 154CM, we wouldn't see a discernible difference. If they bothered to up the hardness to 61-62, however...
 
I don't really understand this request. When something comes up using 154CM everyone bashes it and says they are going to pass on it because of the steel. In fact the OP just said he would pass on a Benchmade because of the use of 154CM. Now I know CPM154 is a little different as it uses a first generation particle metal process which improves the grain structure some. But how does this change the alloy of the steel? They are both iron alloyed with the same percentages of the same added elements. How does that change the alloy?

I'm ok with 154CM, though it is about as low as I like to go anymore. I bought one of the only production knives I know of that used CPM154 and it behaves just like 154CM. There are people who have praised CPM154 but since there are very few production knives that use it, I can only assume it was from a custom maker with a custom heat treat. In my experience a custom heat treat makes almost as much of a difference as the type of steel. A couple blades heat treated at a time perform significantly better than production blades where 100s of blades are in the furnace at once. I just doubt the average person, even knife knuts, are going to notice a difference between the 2 in a production knife, yet the ingot version gets poo-pooed all the time lately.

From what Sal said, it almost sounds like he was hinting that in testing S30V did better than CPM154. I guess it is one thing to try out a new steel. But most people don't usually want a steel that doesn't hold an edge as well. I would like to see Sal give us some testing numbers between S30V and CPM154. The fact they just changed the regular Manix 2 from 154CM to S30V says something. I know it's not the same, but it's not very different either. I just find it amusing to trash one steel and then request the same exact alloy that is made a little different.


A lot will depend on the finial hardness range and if the blades are CYRO treated or not, CPM 154 in a production knife at 59-60 isn't going to be the same as a custom at 62 or even a production blade for that matter.

Will people be able to tell the difference in S30V and CPM 154 in normal everyday use?

Who knows, a lot will depend on the people using it.

Comparing 154CM and CPM 154 and if people will notice the difference, again that depends.

Put them head to head CPM 154 holds an edge longer than 154CM in testing at the same hardness and it's rumored that CPM 154 has some Vanadium added into the matrix for grain refinement.

The biggest question would be and what will have to be decided is what hardness range it will be run at if it's used and only Spyderco can answer that one after they have done their testing in that said model.
 
I don't really understand this request. When something comes up using 154CM everyone bashes it and says they are going to pass on it because of the steel. In fact the OP just said he would pass on a Benchmade because of the use of 154CM. Now I know CPM154 is a little different as it uses a first generation particle metal process which improves the grain structure some. But how does this change the alloy of the steel? They are both iron alloyed with the same percentages of the same added elements. How does that change the alloy?
I thought it was pretty clear actually, short and concise. I don't know how many knives you've used with CPM-154, but I've used about 4 : Custom AD10, Kershaw Blur (2), and a Strider SMF. I was impressed by the results of the knife and simply asked Sal if there was any chance Spyderco would be using it in the future. I can't possibly see how you could be confused by that. :confused:

I'm ok with 154CM, though it is about as low as I like to go anymore. I bought one of the only production knives I know of that used CPM154 and it behaves just like 154CM. There are people who have praised CPM154 but since there are very few production knives that use it, I can only assume it was from a custom maker with a custom heat treat. In my experience a custom heat treat makes almost as much of a difference as the type of steel. A couple blades heat treated at a time perform significantly better than production blades where 100s of blades are in the furnace at once. I just doubt the average person, even knife knuts, are going to notice a difference between the 2 in a production knife, yet the ingot version gets poo-pooed all the time lately.
I own a ton of 154CM knives, from Emerson, Benchmade, Spyderco, Kershaw/ZT, Hogue, etc. I don't recall ever seeing a knife from Spyderco in CPM-154. The knife in the other thread you are referring to does not appeal to me in any way at all. In my view, it's nothing I am interested in buying or owning. I you like it, by all means buy it. I cN't say that I will be able to tell the difference, but like many people here, I love steel.

From what Sal said, it almost sounds like he was hinting that in testing S30V did better than CPM154. I guess it is one thing to try out a new steel. But most people don't usually want a steel that doesn't hold an edge as well. I would like to see Sal give us some testing numbers between S30V and CPM154. The fact they just changed the regular Manix 2 from 154CM to S30V says something. I know it's not the same, but it's not very different either. I just find it amusing to trash one steel and then request the same exact alloy that is made a little different.

That wasn't a hint, it was a fact. However, when has something like that stood in the way of Spyderco releasing a run of a specific model with a specific steel? An example you might be familiar with is the Manix2 lightweight with CTS-BD1. That particular steel is not close to the performance of S30V, but then again the knife continues to be produced. Why? My guess is variety. I can't say I share your amusement, I'm not seeing it. What I do see is you reading a little too far into something without the full benefit of paying attention. No where did I trash anything, you really need to reread that section. If you have something specific to tell me, please email me I'd love to read it. My apologies if I somehow confused you or said something you find distasteful.
 
Heard from Bob today and they have plenty on hand in many thicknesses. Need to decide what to make and remember, it will still require some patience.

sal
 
Carbon Fiber Para 2 !

Only been the one, and I missed it:(:p I think it would sell out faster than the Orange or Green did.
 
And DLC, Please. Thanks so much, Mr. Glesser.

CPM 154 is very corrosion resistant, and wouldn't need a coating.
I know DLC is hard to scratch, but if it does you can't just sand them out like with a non coated blade. Also gives knives a Tactical look IMO.
 
CPM 154 is very corrosion resistant, and wouldn't need a coating.
I know DLC is hard to scratch, but if it does you can't just sand them out like with a non coated blade. Also gives knives a Tactical look IMO.


I'm just a sucker for DLC, that's all. Thanks again, sir.
 
that settles it. i'm sticking to s30v for golden products until it gets so cheap and common it becomes embarrassing.
 
i would go crazy for a manixXL in cpm-154, it is my all time favorite steel along with ELMAX, i work on a farm and need a steel thats tough over everything else and CPM-154 out performs S30V and VG-10 for me and heck its on the same level of toughness as my ELMAX blade, combine that with the lock on the manix and i would be in heaven. i'll take 3 :p
 
Paramiltary2, Manix2, Native5 sprints!

Sounds good to me. If I had my choice the native5 would be first, maybe with green or blue g10. Id also like to see another peel ply cf para2 but I feel like cf warrants a bit more exotic steel, maybe k294 (perhaps wishful thinking on that one...?).
 
Sounds good to me. If I had my choice the native5 would be first, maybe with green or blue g10. Id also like to see another peel ply cf para2 but I feel like cf warrants a bit more exotic steel, maybe k294 (perhaps wishful thinking on that one...?).

Let's do two CF versions! Not concurrent, a high performance exotic, and a high performance CPM steel. Why not? It'll all sell =) wishful thinking on my part also.

I know there are a lot of Native projects in the works, but yeah a CPM-154 Native5 sprint would be sweet. Native5 as it is with the s35vn is so nice already, but we're all addicts here!
 
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