CR Project Got Pwnd
- Thread starter Izan
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I don't have an edge retention problem with my Neil Roberts blade and it sports the same RC as the Green Beret.
If you're "losing shaving sharpness after opening a few letters". . . .the issue isn't the RC or the blade steel, but your sharpening skills or lack of.
If you're "losing shaving sharpness after opening a few letters". . . .the issue isn't the RC or the blade steel, but your sharpening skills or lack of.
I compared a Neil Roberts knife to a Scrapyard Hookguard and found they were totally different animals even though they were fixed blade recurves about the same size.. Where the hookguard was a tough chopper with a forward weight bias the Roberts was a much lighter and faster handling knife with the weight farther back. While the Roberts could not be pounded through a metal pipe the Hook could not hold en edge nearly as long and was not rust resistant.
The Roberts is designed for a soldier to whom weight is important and will have an entry tool if he needs one. His knife needs to be a back up weapon and a camp knife that needs little upkeep.
We had a similar uproar on the Scrapyard site when the new stainless knives came out which are designed for EDC and edge retention and someone managed to snap a tip off.
Some people have a hard time understanding that being able to take a (profanity) load of abuse is not the most important thing about a knife.
One of my favourite knives recently is the Spyderco mule because it is thin stocked and very very very sharp.
The Roberts is designed for a soldier to whom weight is important and will have an entry tool if he needs one. His knife needs to be a back up weapon and a camp knife that needs little upkeep.
We had a similar uproar on the Scrapyard site when the new stainless knives came out which are designed for EDC and edge retention and someone managed to snap a tip off.
Some people have a hard time understanding that being able to take a (profanity) load of abuse is not the most important thing about a knife.
One of my favourite knives recently is the Spyderco mule because it is thin stocked and very very very sharp.
Hello everyone. I have wanted a Chris Reeve one piece for years, so I've been following this thread for a while. My question for Artilary6 is how did you determine the quote above? All I could find on Crucibles spec sheet is that the aim for hardness is 58-61. Despite the controversy in this thread, I would still love to get a Shadow IV!
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Wow -- the traffic that's happened while I'm away!
A few folks have hit on the real conclusion stress risers in a hard, non-fibrous material make for the weakest points during conditions of shock and vibration. This is a fact, whether considering a scribe line in a concrete driveway, a 0.1" crack in a percussionists 18" diameter cymbal, or serrations in a knife. Ever notice that when driveways are poured, seemingly insignificant cuts that are just a fraction of the total concrete thickness are put into the concrete before it dries? Those cuts create a sharp discontinuity in the concrete, thus introducing a stress riser to insure that when the ground shifts, the concrete breaks in a clean, controlled fashion. Drummers will tell you that they can play a crash cymbal for decades w/ no breakage, unless a latent defect introduces even the smallest micro-crack. That crack is, once again, a sharp discontinuity in the cymbal material, resulting in a stress riser. From there, the drummer is just a gig away from that cymbal being uselessly broken.
Its the same phenomenon with serrations (or any abrupt discontinuity in the material) in a knife blade, but to a vastly different degree relative to intended use. Many knife manufacturers craft serrations into their blades for the improved utility those serrations provide. These manufacturers know that under judicious, real life use, the shock and vibration in the knife will not cause failures and the user that preferred the serrations will benefit from the utility of that design feature. If the knife is abused with heavy, prolonged, metal-to-metal shock, the most significant stress riser, likely the serrations, will be where the knife would break.
If we could go back in time before Noss started his knife tests and grind serrations into all of the originally non-serrated knives subjected to mallet strikes, I would surmise that all of the knife test breakage results would mirror those of the GB and Project I. Does this say that serrations are bad? Your decision, based on your intended use. For me, I say no, just as I say that Ill enjoy the benefits of low road clearance on my sports sedan, knowing that its a feature that will probably cause operational failure if Im trying to cross a stream with the car.
The Green Beret and Project I were designed with the serrations being specific product requirements demanded by military professionals. Both knives have been successfully field tested by thousands in hard-use, mission-critical applications, with exceptional results reported.
A few folks have hit on the real conclusion stress risers in a hard, non-fibrous material make for the weakest points during conditions of shock and vibration. This is a fact, whether considering a scribe line in a concrete driveway, a 0.1" crack in a percussionists 18" diameter cymbal, or serrations in a knife. Ever notice that when driveways are poured, seemingly insignificant cuts that are just a fraction of the total concrete thickness are put into the concrete before it dries? Those cuts create a sharp discontinuity in the concrete, thus introducing a stress riser to insure that when the ground shifts, the concrete breaks in a clean, controlled fashion. Drummers will tell you that they can play a crash cymbal for decades w/ no breakage, unless a latent defect introduces even the smallest micro-crack. That crack is, once again, a sharp discontinuity in the cymbal material, resulting in a stress riser. From there, the drummer is just a gig away from that cymbal being uselessly broken.
Its the same phenomenon with serrations (or any abrupt discontinuity in the material) in a knife blade, but to a vastly different degree relative to intended use. Many knife manufacturers craft serrations into their blades for the improved utility those serrations provide. These manufacturers know that under judicious, real life use, the shock and vibration in the knife will not cause failures and the user that preferred the serrations will benefit from the utility of that design feature. If the knife is abused with heavy, prolonged, metal-to-metal shock, the most significant stress riser, likely the serrations, will be where the knife would break.
If we could go back in time before Noss started his knife tests and grind serrations into all of the originally non-serrated knives subjected to mallet strikes, I would surmise that all of the knife test breakage results would mirror those of the GB and Project I. Does this say that serrations are bad? Your decision, based on your intended use. For me, I say no, just as I say that Ill enjoy the benefits of low road clearance on my sports sedan, knowing that its a feature that will probably cause operational failure if Im trying to cross a stream with the car.
The Green Beret and Project I were designed with the serrations being specific product requirements demanded by military professionals. Both knives have been successfully field tested by thousands in hard-use, mission-critical applications, with exceptional results reported.
That depends on the specific details of each knife and the serrations applied. The fact that he has tested knives with serrations that did ok leads me to believe that serrations alone cannot be used as an excuse for a break.
55-57 is what the GB is. I was saying that crucible recomends more hardness.
Right. What about how easily the tip snapped off? Or what about when he stuck the handle in the vice and hit it once and it just busted right apart? The steel in the GB certainly looked much more fragile than most other knives he has tested. I'm pretty sure noone will break the knife in real world use since most people don't abuse knives in such a way. I just think many of us wished the knives did a lot better is all.
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Most people won't run their car into a tree, but would you like to know beforehand how well your car would do if it did? Crash Testing of cars is not the same as hitting a tree, but fairly consistent testing between vehicle makes and models allows people an idea of how well their car would hold up singularly AND how it compares to other makes and models.
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I've seen a few post that think CRK should respond about this test.
Give me a break...why in he heck would CRK feel a need to respond about a "test" done by some guy wearing a mask
And no, the mask is not just for safety, he wears one even when he's peeling an apple in his "test".....well I guess he could get juice in an eye
Give me a break...why in he heck would CRK feel a need to respond about a "test" done by some guy wearing a mask
And no, the mask is not just for safety, he wears one even when he's peeling an apple in his "test".....well I guess he could get juice in an eye
Give me a break...why in he heck would CRK feel a need to respond about a "test" done by some guy wearing a mask
I would respond if I were Chris.
The characteristics of the event really don't make that much difference, beyond the fact that the knife failed in what might quite reasonably be considered a use within its intended scope.
Everyone obviously does not agree on that last point. So what? A valid question has been raised. When questions are raised with respect to the integrity of my work, I tend to respond.
It might be that CRK's position is that nothing of value can be drawn from this event. As a user/customer/fan/design professional/interested party, I'd be interested in knowing about that.
This is not about an indictment of CRK, it's about clarifying what can and should be expected from their products. A line of discussion carried on by some people interested in knives.
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
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Turn that around: questions have been raised about the integrity of noss4's work. Even if he were to respond, what could he say that his tests have already failed to convince us of?
I'm not sure I'm following your pronouns. Definitely not trying to make a statement about test conditions, or whether the subject event even qualifies as a test in any clinical way.
I meant "integrity" literally; as in, something physically broke. I did not mean it in the context of either man's character, or the efficacy of Noss's work as a test. Sorry if that was ambiguous.
It just doesn't make any difference to me whether Noss wears a ski mask, masturbates hanging from the ceiling... whatever. The knife snapped in half while doing something I would expect it to do without catastrophic failure, and more importantly, something that other relatively similar knives have done without catastrophic failure.
Just to be clear, I do think there's a degree of silliness in all of this. That doesn't change the fact that the two knives broke prematurely, though. And I choose to take interest in that fact. Noss could be a complete idiot, and Chris could be god's gift to cutlery, and I would still be interested in what CRK had to say about this.
if someone has already made up their mind that the knife sucks, then CRK can't say anything to convince them otherwise really. Just like if someone thinks NOSS' tests are bunk, what can he say to convince you otherwise? "No they aren't" ? Anyways, if NOSS' ceilngs arent any stronger than the GB I doubt he'd be able to masturbate while hanging from them.
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From a business stand point, CRK would be crazy to respond to the results of Noss' [cough]"test"[cough].
Real testing produces measurable data based on controlled testing protocol(s). Attempting to compare one product to any other based on "Noss kinda hit X knife like he did X knife" is laughable.
I'm sure CRK is vigilant in watching trends in their products (one example. . . .number sold vs. returns and or reported issues) and react accordingly to valid issues.
Real testing produces measurable data based on controlled testing protocol(s). Attempting to compare one product to any other based on "Noss kinda hit X knife like he did X knife" is laughable.
I'm sure CRK is vigilant in watching trends in their products (one example. . . .number sold vs. returns and or reported issues) and react accordingly to valid issues.
"Sucks" and "bunk" are not the sort of words used by folks who are honestly interested in the matter at hand.
I've always thought of the CRK FB's (1-piece and others) as very high quality knives; although it is true that I only own folders from CRK. Guess I'm sort of an agnostic here. I'm really not all that concerned about what anyone thinks at the polar ends of the spectrum.
Here in the middle, where we are actually thinking, and not simply engaged in thin-skinned cheerleading, this is an interesting issue. There are many possible outcomes. Just to quickly imagine three, I would be quite interested to hear what Chris had to say about 1.) why this is not a reasonable use of the subject knives 2.) why he is disappointed in the CRK knives' performance 3.) why it would not be practical to revamp the subject knives so that they would perform well under these circumstances.
I am not using "interested" as thinly-veiled code for, okay CRK, now it looks like you suck". I am honestly interested in this, with no axe to grind whatsoever.