Creationish Vs Evolutionism? BE POLITE!

[liamstrain]

That is one perspective, as seen through your metaphorical eyes and experience. There are others, equally as valid to those that hold them.

Not all perspectives are equally valid. Some things are true, and some things are not.

 

[Codger_64]

Not all perspectives are equally valid. Some things are true, and some things are not.

And who is equipped to be the ultimate arbitrator and judge of all truth?

 

[llecardu]

No theory is concrete, so I tend to just enjoy being here and marvel at nature.

 

[Dan57]

Not all perspectives are equally valid.

I don't think so. There's nothing that makes one person's world view inherently more important than anyone else's.
If you were to say, "The value one assigns to another's perspective can be different from the value someone else assigns to the same person's perspective," then I would agree.

Some things are true, and some things are not.

Yes, but people disagree on what those things are.

 

[jac8610]

And who is equipped to be the ultimate arbitrator and judge of all truth?

There is no human (or other mammal: dolphins, whale and apes are pretty close to our level of cogniscience and seem to interact a little better with each other than we do) alive able to be the "ultimate arbitrator and judge of all truth". There is no divine being able to do so either. There is only us, and what we can see, touch, hear and describe. To say otherwise is either vanity, insecurity, or some combination thereof. When humans are able to grasp that this life is it, then they will truly treat each other in a "godly" manner. Otherwise they will remain justified in exterminating each other in the name of the gods they chose.

 

[Dan57]

Do you really think that the disappearance of religion would lead to world peace?

 

[Klok]

Do you really think that the disappearance of religion would lead to world peace?

Who is making that argument? It would certainly be a step in the right direction. as long as there is a system in place where people have something to gain from violence, there always be someone willing to commit it. everything is subjective even morality.

 

[Dan57]

Who is making that argument?

The post I was responding to

 

[liamstrain]

And who is equipped to be the ultimate arbitrator and judge of all truth?

Of all truth? I don't think anybody. But there are some things we generally can agree on. This world exists outside of our own minds (unless you want everything to dissolve into Solipsism. I know I don't.) So if we accept that, then we can have a rational discussion about that world.

I have a chair made from the wood of a walnut tree. Someone who claims otherwise is wrong.
1+1 = 2
bacteria and viruses and parasites, combined with our bodies immune response cause illness, not bad humours, and insufficient trepanning.

Gradually we begin to lay a groundwork for objective reality. Someone who claims that the stars are velcro'd to a giant black rug in the sky at night, is wrong. Some things are true and others are not.

Science provides us with many tools to evaluate claims about the world around us, and when it is demonstrated to be wrong, it is corrected. Philosophy provides us with some tools, as well. As does logic, art, mathematics, even theology.
One can make any claims about the world around us they wish, but their evidence should be weighed and compared against the claims of others, and a decision is made based on the weight of evidence - usually by some type of consensus between independent evaluations (regardless of field).

They are not inherently equal claims - they are only as good a claim as the evidence that supports them.

We can have a larger conversation about what constitutes reliable evidence, but to say that all claims are equally valid, is plainly incorrect. We may not be able to know absolute truth, but we can know objective truths. And we ignore them at our peril.

 

[jac8610]

Do you really think that the disappearance of religion would lead to world peace?

Yes I do. If people were to treat other people as a person, rather than a non-believer, I do believe the overall effect would be positive. I am fail to see how it would be otherwise.

 

[JCavSD]

And who is equipped to be the ultimate arbitrator and judge of all truth?

I'll do it. Earth is round(ish) and not flat. People and dinosaurs didn't coexist. The earth is much older than 6,000 to 10,000 years. Ford is better than Chevy (now there's something to fight about). Hey, I'm getting good at this. Do I get paid?

 

[jac8610]

Do you really think that the disappearance of religion would lead to world peace?

Yes I do. If people were to treat other people as a person, rather than a non-believer, I do believe the overall effect would be positive. I am fail to see how it would be otherwise.

 

[Codger_64]

Yes I do. If people were to treat other people as a person, rather than a non-believer, I do believe the overall effect would be positive. I am fail to see how it would be otherwise.

So then all the gangbangers who are shooting each other would stop? The tribes of African countries would quit hacking each other to death? There would be no ethnic cleansings or murders or rapes or assaults? I'm sorry, but I don't see this as any kind of truth.

And the world (earth) is not round. It is a prolate ellipsoid.

 

[Klok]

I am sorry but the whole Do you really think that the disappearance of religion would lead to world peace? is a trap
Yes I do. If people were to treat other people as a person, rather than a non-believer, I do believe the overall effect would be positive. I am fail to see how it would be otherwise. is someone failing to bite

So then all the gangbangers who are shooting each other would stop? The tribes of African countries would quit hacking each other to death? There would be no ethnic cleansings or murders or rapes or assaults? I'm sorry, but I don't see this as any kind of truth.

And the world (earth) is not round. It is a prolate ellipsoid.

trap being sprung anyway

I think the use of "leading to world peace" is quite a different thing then saying "causing world peace"

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Yes I do. If people were to treat other people as a person, rather than a non-believer, I do believe the overall effect would be positive. I am fail to see how it would be otherwise.

Europeans of indistinguishable religious beliefs treated each other like cattle for slaughter, turning the seventeenth and eighteenth and nineteenth and twentieth centuries into a hell that would have made a viking sick, although the old Mongols might have gone for it.

It was never the religion. It was the ethnic aggrandizement, the national expansion, the economic exploitation. It was the very human touch, reaching out to dominate. Each took the same beliefs, similar beliefs, or different beliefs, and claimed Deus le veult.

The prophet sets out to share his vision of a better life for his people. His followers teach their followers "the prophet said, the prophet said" and their descendants turn ancient wisdom into memorized chants enforced by authoritarian servants of the State.

And a new overlord enforces the old ethnic aggrandizement, national expansion, and economic exploitation as if the prophet never said a word.

 

[jac8610]

So then all the gangbangers who are shooting each other would stop? The tribes of African countries would quit hacking each other to death? There would be no ethnic cleansings or murders or rapes or assaults? I'm sorry, but I don't see this as any kind of truth.
And the world (earth) is not round. It is a prolate ellipsoid.

I said if everyone followed your Christian beliefs, not just middle class white people. Obviously you missed the point, I meant all people, not just white of decent economic means. I think you might have some latent racism in you, which your most definitely go against your Christian beliefs. Jesus was a hippy, and I beg of you to disagree.

 

[JCavSD]

And the world (earth) is not round. It is a prolate ellipsoid.

Hence the "ish".

 

[Codger_64]

I said if everyone followed your Christian beliefs, not just middle class white people. Obviously you missed the point, I meant all people, not just white of decent economic means. I think you might have some latent racism in you, which your most definitely go against your Christian beliefs. Jesus was a hippy, and I beg of you to disagree.

Ok, now this is just getting wierd. You know nothing of my beliefs and you do not know my race nor my thoughts on race relations. I suppose this would be a good place for me to bow out of this conversation as it is going downhill fast.

 

[Dan57]

I said if everyone followed your Christian beliefs, not just middle class white people. Obviously you missed the point, I meant all people, not just white of decent economic means. I think you might have some latent racism in you, which your most definitely go against your Christian beliefs. Jesus was a hippy, and I beg of you to disagree.

Now we're talking about if everyone followed Christian beliefs? Your post doesn't make much sense.
And accusations of racism are uncalled for.

 

[jac8610]

All religions throughout history did the same thing to each other. Christians in the Crusades put babies on spits (their lances) and roasted them. Viking raiders put monks and
their monasteries to the flame. Romans put christians against wild beasts in the arena. Every religion ever has persecuted the ones before it and after it. So yes, I do believe the world would would be a better place without religion. Maybe we wouldn't slaughter each other, upon the insistence that one side was right. How do you not see this?!