CRKT/Knifecenter Hootenanny: Not actually S30V

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I enjoy this hobby and am open minded to a good value. However, this incident makes supporting local custom shop owners even more desirable. This kind of thing happens because there have been little to no consequences for cheating. The last thing we need is global governance but a universal code of business practices (with consequences) could curtail this unwanted behavior. What would have happened if the OP hadn't been curious about his knife? How many other examples are out there? I hope no one else got ripped off, seriously.
 
unklfranco said:
I enjoy this hobby and am open minded to a good value. However, this incident makes supporting local custom shop owners even more desirable. This kind of thing happens because there have been little to no consequences for cheating. The last thing we need is global governance but a universal code of business practices (with consequences) could curtail this unwanted behavior. What would have happened if the OP hadn't been curious about his knife? How many other examples are out there? I hope no one else got ripped off, seriously.
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I am 100% into supporting as local as possible, it helps me, it helps everyone.

To answer your questions..

A: Someone else would have noticed that this was very obviously S30V

B: It would be impossible to put a number on how many mistakes are out there, it's a part of life.

C: Nobody got "ripped off" Someone made a mistake and everyone will be made whole again.
 
unklfranco said:
...This kind of thing happens because there have been little to no consequences for cheating. The last thing we need is global governance but a universal code of business practices (with consequences) could curtail this unwanted behavior.
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Any consequences that happen will between the manufacturer and CRKT. Even if there was a universal code, there would be no consequences. It will amazes me that the US actually paid Iran interest (an enemy to boot)......
 
No telling what kind of steel is in it, I've got a Hootenanny in what's supposed to be 8cr. I used it some this summer and put the knife away and sure enough it had some rusty spots on it, I'm going to test it on a apple and see what happens!
 
Hats off to KnifeCenter. CRKT, meh, not so much. They should directly source and supply the steel to the manufacturer. Maybe look to Taiwanese manufacturers instead of Chinese. It should have been apparent to whoever was cutting or blanking the blades, as well as grinding them, that the knives were not s30v. s30v is much harder to machine than 10xx carbon steels. With that, CRKT should not only fire their supplier, but also their manufacturer.


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Really nice work here on both ends. And all in between.

Swift and smooth resolution which brings us a better product and raises the bar on quality of care and service, the most important factor in a globally competitive market.


A good example of a healthy community. Weird place to see it. If only everything were that easy. Props to BF.
 
wensynch said:
Swift and smooth resolution which brings us a better product and raises the bar on quality of care and service, the most important factor in a globally competitive market.
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Does it though? Or does it just bring us to the product that it was supposed to be in the first place? I don't know that getting us back to baseline counts as getting us a better product.
 
ursamajor said:
Hats off to KnifeCenter. CRKT, meh, not so much. They should directly source and supply the steel to the manufacturer. Maybe look to Taiwanese manufacturers instead of Chinese. It should have been apparent to whoever was cutting or blanking the blades, as well as grinding them, that the knives were not s30v. s30v is much harder to machine than 10xx carbon steels. With that, CRKT should not only fire their supplier, but also their manufacturer.


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I think the issue is that the supplier and the cutter, grinder, and assembler were all the same factory. I bet CRKT just supplied them design and material specifications and got burned by the factory cheaping out on the materials. Which will hopefully teach them that they need to do random, detailed inspections for quality control.
 
madcap_magician said:
I think the issue is that the supplier and the cutter, grinder, and assembler were all the same factory. I bet CRKT just supplied them design and material specifications and got burned by the factory cheaping out on the materials. Which will hopefully teach them that they need to do random, detailed inspections for quality control.
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I doubt the total cost of this 500 piece run was enough for this manufacturer to decide to scam CRKT and use cheaper materials on it. Perhaps a larger run, maybe, but a run this small I doubt they stood to make much money in a scam, which is why I think there was more of an error in the supply chain. If the deception was going to be so obvious and easily uncovered then it would only make sense to do it when the initial pay from CRKT was substantial.
 
Using a carbon steel instead of an inexpensive stainless sure would be stupid if the intention was fraud ? I just wanted to point out the obvious.
 
This was my immediate thought as well. If it was deliberate one would think cheap stainless would have been used.
It does make you wonder how many other china knives have been a victim of something similar and people never know.
madcap_magician said:
Yeah, it does show a couple of big brass ones. It'd be one thing to sub in a way cheaper stainless steel. But you gotta figure that somebody was gonna notice their "S30V" was rusting the second it started raining within 100 miles.
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The knife maker in China most likely didn't try to scam anybody. If anything it is most likely a supplier who scammed when selling the steel.
Unfortunately there are scammers all over the world
 
Revolverrodger said:
The knife maker in China most likely didn't try to scam anybody. If anything it is most likely a supplier who scammed when selling the steel.
Unfortunately there are scammers all over the world
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I doubt it would be a supplier. Any manufacturer would be able to tell immediately when working with the metal that it was not S30v. The maker would accept being duped in that way. The difference on wear of the machines would be totally different. And further, who else makes s30v besides crucible?

Mete's point should not be forgotten either:

mete said:
You've all forgotten one thing about stainless steel !!! Proper manufacture of stainless steel means you never expose it to carbon steel .Machining, grinding , polishing, etc with things that have been used on carbon steel will be contaminated and the contamination will be transfered to the stainless !!! The carbon particles rust and that will continue into the stainless steel !!!
That's an old story , well documented !! "Passivation" is sometimes used to avoid the rusting.
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In the end we will likely never know what happened but the effect on CRKT's reputation is undeniable.
 
craytab said:
I doubt it would be a supplier. Any manufacturer would be able to tell immediately when working with the metal that it was not S30v. The maker would accept being duped in that way. The difference on wear of the machines would be totally different. And further, who else makes s30v besides crucible?

Mete's point should not be forgotten either:



In the end we will likely never know what happened but the effect on CRKT's reputation is undeniable.
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Good points
Grinding s30v is nothing like grinding 1095
 
Honest mistake that was no fault of their own. They're doing the right thing rectifying the mistake.
 
I agree that the knife maker should have known better about the steel during work. I don't believe they were innocent dupes ripped off by the steel supplier. They are supposed to check the steel even before the first grind or cut. Likewise CRKT has no excuse for not checking the knives during QC. It's as easy as pointing a device at the steel to see a readout of it's composition. If they don't want to buy the machine like Spyderco did for QC reasons they could have checked a few very easily at several places for little cost. Even checking part of the lot would have caught this.

If you are doing business with a PRC manufacturer ( a country that has poisoned not only animal feed but baby formula in some really infamous incidents) and you aren't checking you are doing it wrong or just don't care. No excuse. Not even a little. Knifecenter is the only one involved that has any sort of excuse . They appear blameless and did the right thing as I see it

joe
 
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Well, knifecenter has made a loyal customer out of me. Spot on customer service...Still not sure I'll be buying any CRKT knives however. I don't agree with their way of doing business. However if they follow through with their QC promises (not sure how they could, since they aren't the manufacturer), then we will have to see. Though I don't think any real change is going to come from this.
 
I am impressed with the way knifecenter has handled this. I don't think CRKT did it on purpose, but it is a little suspect of their QC. Kind of a scary thought on steels that may be harder to tell apart.
 
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