CRKT/Knifecenter Hootenanny: Not actually S30V

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Good on Knifecenter. They did a gret job taking care of this quickly IMO.
 
Misanthropia said:
Not to stir up controversy (well, I guess that is unavoidable), but upon giving it more consideration I don't know if I'm really impressed with CRKT's response (or lack thereof) in this situation.

This forum thread, along with their message to Knifecenter, will probably reach less than 1% of their consumer base. They've made no effort to warn their consumers on their pretty substantial social media platforms, which means the bulk of their customers won't know about the whopping QC failure here, or on the "titanium" Squid. I don't want to go as far to call this a "cover up", but Knifecenter is handling the brunt of the damage here while CRKT is able to keep it's non-enthusiast consumer base blissfully unaware of continuous material issues.

Furthermore, this incident is probably going to do some irreparable damage to legitimate Chinese manufacturers, who I have been a strong proponent of since the very first Reate knife was released. I hate to see this thread get trotted out like that picture of the Emerson HD7 with the failed framelock every time someone mentions Chinese made knives.
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Agreed, after further thought on their response its not great. I tweeted at them and wrote on their facebook page, hopefully if enough people do that then they will be upfront about the issue.
 
I have read through this thread and I'm interested. But the bottom line for me is that I would be hesitant to purchase a higher end CRKT knife now. KnifeCenter does a good job and I think they've done all they can. Tis just the way it is....

However, I have never been a big CRKT fanboy in the first place and this kind of thing only confirms my suspicions.
 
mycough said:
This wasn't the first time I have seen you engage in needless China bashing.
Savor my reply old sport, the chances of it not being S30V are about the same as you having hollow points in that Revolver Rodger...
Russ
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Care to repeat that?;)
 
It's sad that there is no testing done, even on a batch scale, to assure their outsourced products are as they say. I'm sure that you can pull a few knives from a batch and send them off to have the materials analyzed yet that isn't even offered as a future fix, just generic crap about being better. I'm glad they admitted the issue but they don't seem to care much before about their branded items being what they say.
 
I'm not the least bit surprised that the Chinese company pulled this crap or that CRKT and Knifecenter are doing a great job to try to remedy the situation. In fact, the ONLY thing that surprised me was that the supplier subbed a carbon steel instead of 3cr or some other crappy cheap stainless.
 
Quite an interesting thread. Unfortunate that the people who purchased these knives didn't get what they were paying for, but great that they are being taken care of now. My opinion of Knifecenter increased quite a bit reading this thread, and it was pretty darned high already from my experiences doing business with them. They've really shown themselves to be a class act by proactively dealing with this issue.

Thank you, Knifecenter.
 
Two recent screwups this big is pretty bad. From time to time threads get started with folks asking about crkt. I always chime in with my thoughts about how QC/fit finish is lacking and how the value isn't there. Add this to the list. Good on knife center for stepping up to clean up crkts mess. Hopefully they have learned what many of us already know. When you buy from crkt you are taking a leap of faith in getting what you pay for.
 
Good & bad stuff is manufactured all over the world. Back in the 1980's, the USA couldn't build a decent car. The Japanese jumped on the chance to shed their poor reputation of "built in Japan", which they did in a stellar way.

I think I see what may be the beginning of a trend in China. It seems a few actual China based companies have decided to produce a product and sell it based on its quality and value. As was mentioned before, WE, Kizer and I'll add Real Steel in the budget category, are producing flawless knives.

In these cases, it is their reputation on the line and not some nameless Chinese factory with a USA storefront label.

But, there has always been junk manufactured for a quick buck. USA made cannons supplied to the Union Army during the Civil War were famous for exploding due to junk metal, purposefully used to turn a quick profit.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
CRKT has been off my radar since Rolox days; horrible little knife, dangerous actually...
That being said, at least they've got the brains to admit the fault rather than engage in some kind of finger pointing coverup. Doesn't mean they didn't know something was wrong, though, for at this
point damage control is all that really counts.
Hats off to Knife Center. Just another reason to keep doing business with them like I've done for years.
 
hexenjager said:
Quite an interesting thread. Unfortunate that the people who purchased these knives didn't get what they were paying for, but great that they are being taken care of now. My opinion of Knifecenter increased quite a bit reading this thread, and it was pretty darned high already from my experiences doing business with them. They've really shown themselves to be a class act by proactively dealing with this issue.

Thank you, Knifecenter.
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not to long ago a friend ordered a knife from knifecenter. it was "in stock" but not actually in stock. the email said 10 to 12 days or something like that and then he started to send emails. first few emails were just canned responses. after inquiring yet again he got someone who ACTUALLY looked into it. they then fixed the webpage that said backorder. THEY DIDNT EVEN OFFER HIM THE SAME BLADE IN A DIFFERENT FINISH. he took his business elsewhere.

i bought 3 knives from knifecenter. one didnt even come in the correct box, didnt come with the tool or anything else. i just said whatever but it woulda been nice if i got everything it should have came with. the other two didnt have any issues with knifecenter tho.

would i buy from them again? if i had to sure. they have good sales and prices more often than other places. but they need to do better. none of these places can be perfect.
 
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Mo2 said:
not to long ago a friend ordered a knife from knifecenter. it was "in stock" but not actually in stock. the email said 10 to 12 days or something like that and then he started to send emails. first few emails were just canned responses. after inquiring yet again he got someone who ACTUALLY looked into it. they then fixed the webpage that said backorder. THEY DIDNT EVEN OFFER HIM THE SAME BLADE IN A DIFFERENT FINISH. he took his business elsewhere.

i bought 3 knives from knifecenter. one didnt even come in the correct box, didnt come with the tool or anything else. i just said whatever but it woulda been nice if i got everything it should have came with. the other two didnt have any issues with knifecenter tho.

would i buy from them again? if i had to sure. they have good sales and prices more often than other places. but they need to do better. none of these places can be perfect.
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This would be more relevant in the GBU section. For now, it's best to keep this on topic, and in this case there's little way to fault Knifecenter.
 
I would bet this was an accident and not a malicious act by the manufacturer. A company that is an OEM contractor for knife making is going to know an easy rusting carbon steel will quickly be discovered when it's supposed to be a premium US made knife steel. If your a company that relies on shady practices you need to do a decent job of making an inferior material look like the real thing because you still have to have companies willing to give contracts and money. That would be a stupid substitution to do on purpose so it was likely an accidental mix up.

What would be real interesting is to know how the knife holds an edge and to have the hardness tested. I would imagine 1080 or similar given the heat treat for S30V would result in a soft blade or at least a poor performing one. But I don't know what the heat treat is like for S30V but I'm guessing it doesn't get a fast quench that a simple HC steel would need to get hard. That type of testing would probably be the most telling about the manufacturer. I'm sure CRKT knows what the steel is because when you have something tested they determine the composition, not whether it is or isn't a specific composition/alloy such as S30V.

That said, it still doesn't speak well of the manufacturer that the mistake could happen in the first place. Whether it was something mislabeled (as a sheet of steel looks like a sheet of steel so knowing what is what is very important) or a language barrier problem, both are fairly serious issues to have a problem with.

And there is probably a problem with companies outsourcing to the lowest bidder. But an even bigger problem is our disposable society that does not care about quality and pride of ownership, but cheap and easy so they can put in no effort to care for something and simply buy a new cheap one once they destroy something.

Society is swirling the drain and picking up speed with each passing year as we near the bottom...
 
FlaMtnBkr said:
I would bet this was an accident and not a malicious act by the manufacturer. A company that is an OEM contractor for knife making is going to know an easy rusting carbon steel will quickly be discovered when it's supposed to be a premium US made knife steel. If your a company that relies on shady practices you need to do a decent job of making an inferior material look like the real thing because you still have to have companies willing to give contracts and money. That would be a stupid substitution to do on purpose so it was likely an accidental mix up.

What would be real interesting is to know how the knife holds an edge and to have the hardness tested. I would imagine 1080 or similar given the heat treat for S30V would result in a soft blade or at least a poor performing one. But I don't know what the heat treat is like for S30V but I'm guessing it doesn't get a fast quench that a simple HC steel would need to get hard. That type of testing would probably be the most telling about the manufacturer. I'm sure CRKT knows what the steel is because when you have something tested they determine the composition, not whether it is or isn't a specific composition/alloy such as S30V.

That said, it still doesn't speak well of the manufacturer that the mistake could happen in the first place. Whether it was something mislabeled (as a sheet of steel looks like a sheet of steel so knowing what is what is very important) or a language barrier problem, both are fairly serious issues to have a problem with.
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This. No one would ever pull of this kind of gambit unless their buyer (CRKT) had absolutely no recourse once it was discovered (which being totally naive to international business seems actually kind of possible). Someone was bound to notice this very quickly. It just happens to be a hell of a mistake to make. A more intentional act would have substituted in 8cr13Mov.

I doubt we'll get the fully story on whether this was a mistake or intentional act, but just because this incident happened at a Chinese factory doesn't 100% guarantee it was fraud.
 
Misanthropia said:
I doubt we'll get the fully story on whether this was a mistake or intentional act, but just because this incident happened at a Chinese factory doesn't 100% guarantee it was fraud.
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Of course there will be no big revelations from CRKT. Intentional or not, there is little recourse with a Chinese manufacturer.
 
craytab said:
Where they have their knives made is irrelevant. The China bashing is not warranted. CRKT failed. Not China.
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Absolutely pointing the finger at the guilty party....

CRKT picket who builds the knife, they own the mistake.

Not sure why it's such a bid deal, I make mistakes all the time, and so does everyone else.
It's how you fix them that's important....

Anyone who thinks this was something "malicious" or done "on purpose" didn't take their meds today.
 
MAD777 said:
Good & bad stuff is manufactured all over the world. Back in the 1980's, the USA couldn't build a decent car. The Japanese jumped on the chance to shed their poor reputation of "built in Japan", which they did in a stellar way.

I think I see what may be the beginning of a trend in China. It seems a few actual China based companies have decided to produce a product and sell it based on its quality and value. As was mentioned before, WE, Kizer and I'll add Real Steel in the budget category, are producing flawless knives.

In these cases, it is their reputation on the line and not some nameless Chinese factory with a USA storefront label.

But, there has always been junk manufactured for a quick buck. USA made cannons supplied to the Union Army during the Civil War were famous for exploding due to junk metal, purposefully used to turn a quick profit.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
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Just to correct your lost sense of history.....

Japan entered the market in the USA through JAPANESE companies and a workforce that was on par, if not better than, the conditions and pay found in America.

I would like to also add that China does not actually manufacture much of it's OWN (Chinese owned) products, rather, most of what you buy is made for American companies. (Minus some junk at the dollar store)

See the difference?

I do.
 
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