CS- love 'em, hate 'em- time to address some issues

cutlerylover said:
Its a dog eat dog world he does what he does to sell his knives...just a marketing stradegy...can't blame him...he's trying to run a buinsess...when it comes down to it its about the money like all buisnesses, and to say other knives are just as good or better doesn't pay the bills...
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Sal Glesser is frequently heard saying positive things about his competitors' products, even Cold Steel. He has been know to say things like, "all good, just different", when speaking of his competitors' products, and I don't think he or Spyderco can't "pay the bills"!;)

Regards,
3G

P.S. Good to see you back, DngrRuss1. Do you have any of that "information" yet?:D
 
Sal doesn't need to dog on other people's products. Besides, we all know Spyderco's better anyway! ;)


3Guardsmen said:
Sal Glesser is frequently heard saying positive things about his competitors' products, even Cold Steel. He has been know to say things like, "all good, just different", when speaking of his competitors' products, and I don't think he or Spyderco can't "pay the bills"!;)

Regards,
3G

P.S. Good to see you back, DngrRuss1. Do you have any of that "information" yet?:D
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Is this a moral, quality or just opinion thread? Verbal and written "facts" and legalities aside, what has been used by any of the companies mentioned, and why do you hate/love that product.

I have broken every Spyderco (Natives, the only design I care for) I've owned (by abuse, and not a slander to them) and I personally think they are unattractive and uncomfortable. But, overall have an outstanding rep. Good on them. I have had many Cold Steel products, toms that still won't quit, carbon v throwers that have withstood almost as much abuse as my Busse Combat blades, Gunsite and Voyager models that do hold up like the ridiculous videos show, and an Outdoorsman that is one of the best hunting knives I have had the plaesure to use. Most of the CS stuff not mentioned, I don't care for. I have 2 CRK&T M21s and they are bullet proof. I have had and/or used just about every Benchmade, and I find that they perform better than most anything out there. But, they are too slender for my taste. I would like to handle/use a couple Striders someday(although Strider fans seem a little more zealous than us Busse fans, if that's possible). But, I think they are ugly and uncomfortable looking, and I don't judge a blade just on cosmetics. Which brings me to ATC. The VTAC is bomb proof and cosmetically looks like it has withstood the literal test. Great hawk, but does NOT look as advertised. The rest of there hawks are flawless.
I am a fan of Busse and Swamp Rat, but I don't like every product they have made. In fact, most of the more popular older versions and prestigious collectable pieces are downright, to the point, not my bag baby.
As to customer service, I have had trouble getting responses from just about every company mentioned above, especially my favorite. In fact, the only knifemakers that do respond fast and courteous every time have been custom makers (ie. Daniel Koster, Dwaine Carrillo of Airkat to name a couple. Which I hope to have the honor of using/owning their work someday.).

All this said, I wanted to share some of my experience and just a couple of my many opinions. One is which, I don't give a SH!T about the politics when I am depending on a product to perform while I'm using it. I don't buy something based on how they advertise (or I wouldn't eat Taco Bell) and the facts that are right in front of me or someone I trust. If you don't like it, don't buy it.
OK, that's my rant. I did not slander anyone here and I shared my views. It's a forum and discussion/debate is welcome, but without flaming. Cold Steel is an ideal as far as far as a U.S. business is concerned. Just like Wal-Mart and Microsoft, they have followed (most) of the rules and been a huge influence on how commerce will be done within their markets in the future. Bad talking them has no valid effect. Again, If you don't like it, don't buy it.
 
I'm a firm believer in stating that you like them if you like them, and that you don't like them if you don't like them. It doesn't matter what company we are talking about. However, some companies give more ammunition to those that don't like them than other companies do. CS is one of those companies. If they are going to live by the sword then they should be willing to die by the sword. I don't think LT should expect to be treated any better than he seems to be willing to treat his competitors.
 
Well thatsa good point, but Moral changes from person to person doesn't it...What some people find perfectly acceptable is a shamefull to others...so whos to say whos right? There are several different issues discussed here, so many i don't even know whats being argued anymore? LOL, who cares either way, nothing will change! No matter what are opinions are!!!
 
mymindisamob said:
Is this a moral, quality or just opinion thread?
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All of the above.

mymindisamob said:
I don't give a SH!T about the politics when I am depending on a product to perform while I'm using it.
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That is certainly up to the individual. However, some people, myself included, feel differently than you about it.

mymindisamob said:
If you don't like it, don't buy it.
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Believe me, I won't. However, that does not mean I will stop discussing my personal views about a company, just because I won't buy a product from them.

mymindisamob said:
OK, that's my rant. I did not slander anyone here and I shared my views. It's a forum and discussion/debate is welcome, but without flaming. Cold Steel is an ideal as far as far as a U.S. business is concerned. Just like Wal-Mart and Microsoft, they have followed (most) of the rules and been a huge influence on how commerce will be done within their markets in the future. Bad talking them has no valid effect. Again, If you don't like it, don't buy it.
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Are you suggesting, at the bottom of the above quoted paragraph, that we discontinue doing what you stated "is welcome", at the top of the above quoted paragraph?

Regards,
3G
 
3G, Thanks for the direct responses to my post. I suppose after reading this thread I should have posed more questions as to it being about politics rather than knives. I see this is an ongoing subject of distaste revolving around more opinions than user data.
Believe me, I appreciate anyones point of view and their rights to express it. I just believe that a tremendous amount of what I've read is coming across as "Garbage Talk" about a product that is not entirely as poor quality as some say. If Lynn Thompson is truly as despicable as described, then truly, it shouldn't go unsaid, but with explanation. I do see that many have good reason to dislike him and his way of doing business, but I don't recall any accounts of fact based product failure (I could have missed something, this thread is pretty large.). Also, the politics are so similar to those of the giants I mentioned before. I think discussion is healthy and educational, but are the "bad talking" tactics really doing anything. My original post was meant to be more of a queston about anyone being proactive. Do these same people refuse to use Windows, or do they boycott large store chains for their employment policies and buying strategies that destroy small business nationwide. If I was truly convinced that the Cold Steel bashing was with a strong voice of reason and fair product comparison, I'd drop every disproven CS product in the recycle bin.
As you have pointed out, we won't all agree. I look forward to more discussion on just about any subject, with many who have posted in this thread.
Wow, I just took the long way around saying that this is in the Blade Discussion area, I thought we might talk about the knives.;).

I have seen the blade design comparisons discussed, but not much about product failure. If I have missed any, please point me in the right direction.
 
mymindisamob,
Thank you for responding and elaborating. I will be the first to say that I feel a majority of the products marketed (not made) by CS are somewhat decent. Some, like the SRK and Master Hunter, are even what I would consider to be "bang for the buck" pieces (at street price, not MSRP). Unfortunately, a majority of their product line is, in my opinion, overpriced, overhyped, plain Jane stuff that is easily outmatched by companies like Spyderco, Emerson, Kershaw, Benchmade, CRKT, Buck,..... and the list goes on.

I find Cold Steel's warranty to be exceedingly weak. I mean, a 1-year warranty for their folding knives?! Spyderco has their knives made by some of the same factories in Seki, Japan, yet Spyderco offers a limited lifetime warranty on their folders. Why is that? I think it is because Spyderco cares more about their ELU and standing behind their product than Cold Steel does. To me, Spyderco appears to have much more confidence in their product, which in turn, gives me much more confidence in them and their product.

For around the same MSRP, I could purchase either a Cold Steel Voyager or a Spyderco Endura. Both models are probably made in the same factory in Seki, Japan. However, by going with the Spyderco, I am getting a model of knife that is constantly being refined and updated, a much better blade steel, the ear of the company's founder and President (Sal Glesser, who is always soliciting ELU input on the forums, has never, as far as I know, been accused of using other peoples' designs without due credit and compensation, and hasn't blasted other companies' products), and a warranty against defects that will last as long as I own the knife. As far as I'm concerned, the choice is too darn easy!

When I "do the math", for some reason Cold Steel just isn't "part of the equation." However, YMMV.

Regards,
3G
 
STR said:
I'd like patent numbers. No one has provided that for the Cold Steel thumb plate. I called Cold Steel to get it and they stalled and put me on hold and never picked back up. Yeah, thats a real credit to their integrity right there IMO.

It says it is patented in their catalog and the web site. We all know Ernie's patent number. How about the others?

STR
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http://www.google.com/advanced_patent_search

Search for inventor or assignee yourself.

http://www.google.com/patents?as_q=...&as_miny_ap=2007&as_maxm_ap=1&as_maxy_ap=2007

results for Cold Steel as the assignee

--Carl
 
HornsKeith said:
That makes total sense. I checked that date on USPTO's database, and it doesn't show any patents at all (for that date or any dates around that time). This means that their complete database isn't up to date yet, and it probably wouldn't show up on any searches. I'll have to check back later to see the details whenever they update their online database.

Interesting. I'll take back my skepticism on the patent's existence.
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http://www.google.com/patents?vid=U...&as_miny_is=2007&as_maxm_is=1&as_maxy_is=2007

issue 2006. Is this the one you were looking for?

--Carl
 
I feel that as long as that companies like CS agree with other companies like BM of simmilarities in products (AXIS) it is right. I have seen many knives copying the axis and do not give credit to BM which I do not agree with.

Cold Steel is a knife company and knives have limited design capability. Thus there will be some simmilarities.
 
mr.trooper said:
think its funny how CS sells the spyderco sharpmaker.
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Do they market it as a "tactical fighting tool"? Can't you just imagine it now:

Our super tough, covertly disguised, de-animation death rods give you the ability to maintain your edge! These fighting sticks are triangular in shape, to easily facilitate the deadliest move, the face serration. Expertly honed from our own, super tough Alumina Ceramic V, they even have built in blood grooves, disguised as hook sharpeners, on the back of each death rod. The best part is, the case that contains the death rods is built of durable, molded ABS, and makes a great improvised Yawara

:D

Regards,
3G
 
3Guardsmen said:
Do they market it as a "tactical fighting tool"? Can't you just imagine it now:

Our super tough, covertly disguised, de-animation death rods give you the ability to maintain your edge! These fighting sticks are triangular in shape, to easily facilitate the deadliest move, the face serration. Expertly honed from our own, super tough Alumina Ceramic V, they even have built in blood grooves, disguised as hook sharpeners, on the back of each death rod. The best part is, the case that contains the death rods is built of durable, molded ABS, and makes a great improvised Yawara

:D

Regards,
3G
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I'm sure we will see it in the next catalog, right next to the "fighting sarong". :D
 
pricecw said:
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=U...&as_miny_is=2007&as_maxm_is=1&as_maxy_is=2007

issue 2006. Is this the one you were looking for?

--Carl
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How is this different from Emerson's patent? Looks like the same thing to me, just with an extra piece of metal attached. The principle is identical. How can there be 2 patents for what is basically the same thing? Any lawyers reading this?

If you look for "Lynn Thompson" in the patent search engine, it shows that he does hold multiple patents. Most them are for "ornamental design" though.
 
moonwilson said:
How is this different from Emerson's patent? Looks like the same thing to me, just with an extra piece of metal attached. The principle is identical. How can there be 2 patents for what is basically the same thing? Any lawyers reading this?

If you look for "Lynn Thompson" in the patent search engine, it shows that he does hold multiple patents. Most them are for "ornamental design" though.
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I'm no lawyer but this is just my take on the thing. When Spyderco had a patent of the hole opener did that patent extend to thumbstuds? Both are round, both facilitate one handed opening of the blade, both are situated on the same part of the blade, etc, etc. The difference was one was an extra piece that was added to the blade, and Spyderco's patent was for any opening device that was created through an "indention in the blade." There is a place in the market for similar products. Adding an extra part instead of having the device be integral obviously creates enough of a difference for multiple patents.
 
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