CS- love 'em, hate 'em- time to address some issues

[GibsonFan]

Where's Lum's original design, and where can we do a side by side comparison?

www.engnath.com/public/tantdraw.htm ...Thomas Linton posted this one, which seems to be drawings of Engnath's interpretation of Lum's designs. Hope Mr. Engnath has a good lawyer!

http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/lumtf.htm ...that's the one I found via google; Lum knives are listed as not available.

http://images.google.com/images?cli...al_s&q=bob+lum+tanto&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images ...google image search.

NEWSFLASH: it's a single-edged, nearly straight-bladed knife, fairly large (blade significantly longer than handle), and without a large guard to get in the way. Incredible! Revolutionary! Whoop-de-freakin'-doo! Except apparently Mr. Lum decided to dispense with a regular rounded "belly" as is seen on a huge majority of knives from nearly every culture on the planet, and replace it with the chisel-point typical of large Japanese swords. This way the knife is arguably harder to sharpen and will certainly be more likely to make a mess of delicate tasks, as well as chip out right where the edge is used most in fighting. However, it looks "warrior-like", and may well be stronger... for when you need to pierce through an opponent's plate armor (or a car door). A stunning example of innovative engineering if I ever saw one. Clearly Mr. Lum is a LUMinary in his field and should be regarded as a national treasure. Especially since his "newer" designs bear NO RESEMBLANCE to any other maker's knives... *ahem*

Sorry about all the sarcasm guys, but geez louise... the more I look into this whole tanto thing the more ridiculous the argument gets. Show me one maker from the last century who has "invented" or "created" a truly new blade design and I will eat my hat. Note: A throwing star on a stick or some other mall-ninja monstrosity doesn't count, lol. I'm refering to actual tools/weapons that serve a purpose other than to impress folks who don't use either.

 

[Kohai999]

..... Except apparently Mr. Lum dec...dvice your sig line offers. STeven Garsson

 

[GibsonFan]

Hey, man, congratulations, you managed to flaunt your COMPLET lack of knowledge about traditional Japanese swords, insult a whole bunch of people, and make my "IGNORE" list in one post!


STeven Garsson

Never claimed to be an expert on anything Japanese; I asked for info on the subject and none of the masters here would deign to help me out (except for a drawing of someone else's intreptation of Mr Lum's design), so I found out what I could.

For those who aren't ignoring me yet, please go look up "sarcasm" in the dictionary. It's fun, mostly because it befuddles the know-it-alls.

Seriously though, my point is that it's just pointless (ho-ho!) to debate who "invented" the tanto , the bowie, the drop-point, the dagger, the machete... all of these have been around nearly as long as steel itself. My dear departed grandfather ground a hunting knife from an old file circa 1940. Besides the type of steel he used, and the lack of nickel silver accoutrements, it resembles a Loveless knife in every way... yet, I'm pretty sure Gramps didn't "steal" the design from old Bob. The knives we use today evolved as humans from all over the globe refined their tools to suit thier needs. It's my belief that 95% of these basic parameters were established centuries ago.

I apologize for my lack of expertise regarding Japanese swords. I very seldom have felt the need to use one, so I haven't looked into them much.

 

[Thomas Linton]

www.engnath.com/public/tantdraw.htm ...Thomas Linton posted this one, which seems to be drawings of Engnath's interpretation of Lum's designs. Hope Mr. Engnath has a good lawyer!

Mr. Engnath, being dead, does not need a lawyer. Note that, unlike CS, he gave credit to Mr. Lum, as does about everyone in knifedom except CS and, I guess, you.

If Lum's design is so lame in your expert opinion, what does that say about CS for copying it?

Lum is a luminary. You are not.

And you have no chance to sell the notion that you are sorry about your sarcasm. It's your style, as reflected in your signature line about "retard."

I am trying to be restrained since I have worked with Special Olympics -- which probably colors my opinion of you.

 

[GibsonFan]

Thomas, we've discussed my tagline before. 'Nuff said.

I again ask for any links anyone might have about Mr Lum and his work; I'm honestly curious to learn about his, or anyone else's, craftsmanship. My intent is not to discredit or defame him.

I assure you, I don't regret my sarcasm, nor am I trying to "sell" any remorse... I do find it a bit sad that it's taken SO seriously. I've been away from internet forums for awhile and I guess I forgot how everything is taken as either Gawd's Gospel or a personal attack.

I also find it telling that still, no one has addressed my actual point: that taking or giving credit for an age-old blade design is just plain dumb at best.

 

[shecky]

The only pix of Lum knives I can find so far don't resemble CS knives much. Can anyone point to a better ripoff?

As far as giving Lum credit, why should I care? Given Lum's prices, I suspect CS isn't "stealing" much business from Lum.

There is nothing wrong with copying a design as long as the design isn't legally protected, or the copy isn't a counterfeit. In fact, copying is good for the consumer, as it encourages competition, and results in lower prices overall.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Thomas, we've discussed my tagline before. 'Nuff said.

And you continue to use it. "'Nuff said"? More could be said about someone who taunts the unfortunate as you do, but that is not needed. Even for those "befuddled."

You want to know about Bob Lum. Do a Google search for "Bob Lum" + "knife" or "knives."

I assure you, I don't regret my sarcasm. . .

We got that part, despite your saying you were "sorry for all the sarcasm."

I also find it telling that still, no one has addressed my actual point: that taking or giving credit for an age-old blade design is just plain dumb at best.

We await your proof that Mr. Lum's design fits your description. That is not the general view, but perhaps you intuit a more accurate position.

 

[GibsonFan]

RE: shecky ... the newer Lum stuff I saw online looks a lot like stuff Al Mar has been selling for 20 years; many, many other makers' stuff looks similar. I don't know or care who "pioneered" that look.

Thomas, I will use any bloody tagline I feel fit. If I'm out of bounds with the rules of this server, I'm quite confidant the moderators will let me know. I'm a big believer in the First Amendment, whether what I say irritates you or not. That's what I told you the first time you had a hissy fit over it, and that's why I say "'nuff said".

Thomas, not sure what you mean about "my description of Mr Lum". I certainly never claimed that he took credit for anything. For that matter, I don't know of any circumstance where Lynn Thompson or anyone else claimed to have invented the tanto. A fair number of people have made a great deal of money in the last couple decades marketing tanto's... so what? Welcome to capitalism.

My challenge stands unanswered: show me a maker from 1900 till today who has developed or marketed an actual "original" blade design.

 

[Slim to None]

My challenge stands unanswered: show me a maker from 1900 till today who has developed or marketed an actual "original" blade design.

Spyderco worker

spyderco matriarch

Randall #1

Bob Loveless subhilt fighters

Airkat designs, they're ugly but they're original.

This thread is asinine, I wish a supermod would lock it.

 

[Revolutionary]

The first amendment has no application on an interent site. Your speech can be regulated for whatever reason the owner of the site sees fit.

 

[GibsonFan]

This thread is asinine, I wish a supermod would lock it.

I was SO waiting for someone to mention Spyderco! Surprised it took so long... they're not my cup of tea, but I happily admit that they have sparked an evolution in pocket-knives. I also concur with Randall as an example. It may be true that sub-hilt knives are new ( I honestly don't know) but that has very little to do with the design/profile of the cutting edge.

My pops used to say, "wish in one hand, crap in the other... see which one gets full first." This thread will never die, lol, it's just too easy for people to A) bash Cold Steel for many reasons, and/or B) infuriate the bashers.

The first amendment has no application on an interent site. Your speech can be regulated for whatever reason the owner of the site sees fit.

Do you people only read one line at a time, or what? I'm well aware that this is a privately-owned forum and the people who run it may censor anything they wish. I said so the first time this came up, several WEEKS ago, as well as last hour.

Clearly, if Thomas was a mod or the owner, he would have booted me by now. Since he's not, he should avail himself of the "ignore" function if he finds me unpleasant, or just get over it. I mentioned the 1st Amendment as a point of personal philosophy.

 

[JCaswell]

I was SO waiting for someone to mention Spyderco! Surprised it took so long... they're not my cup of tea, but I happily admit that they have sparked an evolution in pocket-knives. I also concur with Randall as an example.

So does that mean you consider your 'challenge' met?

 

[Thomas Linton]

. . .Thomas, I will use any bloody tagline I feel fit. If I'm out of bounds with the rules of this server, I'm quite confidant the moderators will let me know. I'm a big believer in the First Amendment, whether what I say irritates you or not. That's what I told you the first time you had a hissy fit over it, and that's why I say "'nuff said".

"You" would be Old_Soldier, not me. "Befuddled" are you?

Thomas, not sure what you mean about "my description of Mr Lum".

Befuddled again? I never used those words. I refered to your description of Lum's "design," not Mr. Lum.

First Amendment? Geez, I wouldn't want to be the government.

 

[3Guardsmen]

NEWSFLASH: it's a single-edged, nearly straight-bladed knife, fairly large (blade significantly longer than handle), and without a large guard to get in the way. Incredible! Revolutionary! Whoop-de-freakin'-doo! Except apparently Mr. Lum decided to dispense with a regular rounded "belly" as is seen on a huge majority of knives from nearly every culture on the planet, and replace it with the chisel-point typical of large Japanese swords. This way the knife is arguably harder to sharpen and will certainly be more likely to make a mess of delicate tasks, as well as chip out right where the edge is used most in fighting. However, it looks "warrior-like", and may well be stronger... for when you need to pierce through an opponent's plate armor (or a car door). A stunning example of innovative engineering if I ever saw one. Clearly Mr. Lum is a LUMinary in his field and should be regarded as a national treasure. Especially since his "newer" designs bear NO RESEMBLANCE to any other maker's knives... *ahem*

Sorry about all the sarcasm guys, but geez louise... the more I look into this whole tanto thing the more ridiculous the argument gets. Show me one maker from the last century who has "invented" or "created" a truly new blade design and I will eat my hat. Note: A throwing star on a stick or some other mall-ninja monstrosity doesn't count, lol. I'm refering to actual tools/weapons that serve a purpose other than to impress folks who don't use either.

Your arguments seem to epitomize the very things that I, along with several others, dislike about the company we've been discussing. You, sir, seem to me like the perfect customer for that company. That is not a compliment, in case you were wondering.

3G

 

[3Guardsmen]

RE: shecky ... the newer Lum stuff I saw online looks a lot like stuff Al Mar has been selling for 20 years; many, many other makers' stuff looks similar. I don't know or care who "pioneered" that look.

Try to look beyond the maker's mark (Lum's & Al Mar's makers' marks do look similar), and actually examine the design of the knife. While you're at it, why don't you link to a picture of a Bob Lum knife that "looks a lot like stuff Al Mar has been selling for 20 years"? I'd like to see for myself this uncanny resemblance between Bob Lum's and Al Mar's knives, as I collect both and don't agree with you.

3G

 

[GibsonFan]

So does that mean you consider your 'challenge' met?

Yes, because that's the first time anyone said anything even remotely relating to my question Blondie was the only person to offer examples, and I think they're good ones.

3Guardsmen, I defer to your expertise in the differences between the vast number of knives I'm sure reside in your collection. Care to explain the design differences, since you're more knowledgeable than I? I didn't bother to examine the maker's-mark, I was looking at the overall form and function of the knives. If you can't see the similarities, you're not looking.

"You" would be Old_Soldier, not me. "Befuddled" are you?

Oops, thought there was only one self-righteous curmudgeon who took offense to my tagline. I apologize for confusing you with someone else. RE: Mr. Lum ... re-read my posts.

I find it really funny that I've raised such a fuss with my simple opinions. It's a knife, not a religion... y'all have missed the point by so wide a margin it's just... well... retarded.

 

[Keith Montgomery]

This is the thread that never ends,
It just goes on and on my friends,
Some people started typing it not knowing what it was
And they’ll continue typing it forever just because,
This is the thread that never ends....

 

[Ben Rumson]

Your arguments seem to epitomize the very things that I, along with several others, dislike about the company we've been discussing. You, sir, seem to me like the perfect customer for that company. That is not a compliment, in case you were wondering.

3G

As a CS customer myself who has stayed out of these back and forth forever arguments I take great exception with your statement here. I have no problem with folks who choose not to buy from CS and I expect the same courtesy from them. You, Sir, can take your insult of all CS customers and shove it where the sun don't shine.

 

[S. Brown]

This started out as a good thread and is now a very very stupid thread. This really is not that big of a deal. I'd say that we all just leave poor Cold Steel alone for a while.

To everyone out there who hates them, you're cool.

To everyone out there who likes them, you're cool too.

So please, lets leave this poor company, who is trying to do what every business does, alone for a little bit.

Lets also remember that this web site is about knives and knife lovers and not bad business decisions.

 

[JCaswell]

Oops, thought there was only one self-righteous curmudgeon who took offense to my tagline.

I don't know about self-righteous, but I'd like to sign up for 'curmudgeon' duty.

It seems to me 'retard' is a label best left on the schoolyard. It's use in an adult context strikes me as a sign of stunted development in itself.

It wasn't always so, but today I'm incapable of appreciating levity at the expense of people that suffer something so grave through no fault of their own.

Guess I'm a good curmudgeon.