CS New American Lawman Hard Use Video

[Ankerson]

Nothing I saw in that video should damage either one of the knives I mentioned. Both are designed to adjust for wear to keep them from developing play. They use similar materials that should perform just as well as what the Lawman uses. I would like to know what about their design would cause them to be damaged when they get their strength in a very similar way to the Lawman. Forces get transferred in a similar way in all designs so why would one survive and the rest fail?

Yeah Ok......

Just keep thinking that...

Read my last post...

I trashed an extremely strong knife doing what I pointed out... And I did it on video... The knife had to be completely redone by their shop.

I know how to trash a folder....

 

[TKAZ]

Great video, thank you for taking the time and sharing.

I have sold many CS knives with no complaints or returns. this is one that I have been debating grabbing one for myself for my new EDC.

Again, thank you for the video.

 

[Ankerson]

Great video, thank you for taking the time and sharing.

I have sold many CS knives with no complaints or returns. this is one that I have been debating grabbing one for myself for my new EDC.

Again, thank you for the video.

Thanks man. :thumbup:

I bet you have, they do make some really great knives. :thumbup:

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

Better watch it again and look at the angle I was hitting the blade at.

I did it at that angle to overstress the knife and see if it would loosen up, if you don't believe me try it for yourself. It puts a lot of stress on the pivot at that angle.....

You're right I don't see anything different. Are you talking about the battoning or the spine whacks? Just looked like you were hitting the back of the blade and the spine whacks were rocking the board which I'm sure isn't quite the impact that hitting a rigid structure is.

But my point isn't to nit pick about how you tested it, I have no problem believing the knife is strong and tough. I just think there are other knives out there in that price range that are just as strong, which is contrary to your claim of absolute supremacy.

 

[Bill86]

The Axis lock will loosen up and develop play, I know that from experience.

I wouldn't bet on being about to pry with them either, I have seen both knives and handled them.

Better watch it again and look at the angle of the blade when I was hitting it, I did it at that angle on purpose to overstress it to see if it would loosen up.



I know what the Axis Lock will do, it wouldn't fail, but will develop blade play under hard stress (Up and down play at the least).

I have played with a Manix 2 and I wouldn't want to try it if I owned the knife.

Yep you sir are correct, axis will develop play but won't fail.

 

[Ankerson]

You're right I don't see anything different. Are you talking about the battoning or the spine whacks? Just looked like you were hitting the back of the blade and the spine whacks were rocking the board which I'm sure isn't quite the impact that hitting a rigid structure is.

But my point isn't to nit pick about how you tested it, I have no problem believing the knife is strong and tough. I just think there are other knives out there in that price range that are just as strong, which is contrary to your claim of absolute supremacy.

Try turning the blade on a 45 degree angle and hitting it straight down (Battoning), believe me MOST knives won't survive it without damage or developing serious blade play.

I trashed a $500 knife doing just that.

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

Yeah Ok......

Just keep thinking that...

Read my last post...

I trashed an extremely strong knife doing what I pointed out... And I did it on video... The knife had to be completely redone by their shop.

I know how to trash a folder....

Just keep thinking what? What is not true? That they aren't designed to adjust for wear? That they don't use similar materials? That they don't have similar ways of dealing with the applied forces?

You held the knife at an angle and put more stress on the pivot. The knife is tough. But what about it's pivot makes it tougher than EVERY single other folding knife that is less than a 100 bucks? It uses a bolt that goes through a hole in the blade and liners. Just like every single other folding knife out there. Just because that knife held up to your tests doesn't mean every other knife will fail the same test.

Which knife did you trash and have to send in? Have a link to a video? Was it a frame lock because I can believe one of those failed.

My intent was not to start an argument or question the strength of the knife you tested. I agree a lot of knives would fail or be damaged. I just don't think EVERY single knife will except this one. There is nothing from a physics or strength of materials stand point to put this knife above every single knife that does not have the Triad lock.

 

[Ankerson]

Just keep thinking what? What is not true? That they aren't designed to adjust for wear? That they don't use similar materials? That they don't have similar ways of dealing with the applied forces?

You held the knife at an angle and put more stress on the pivot. The knife is tough. But what about it's pivot makes it tougher than EVERY single other folding knife that is less than a 100 bucks? It uses a bolt that goes through a hole in the blade and liners. Just like every single other folding knife out there. Just because that knife held up to your tests doesn't mean every other knife will fail the same test.

Which knife did you trash and have to send in? Have a link to a video? Was it a frame lock because I can believe one of those failed.

My intent was not to start an argument or question the strength of the knife you tested. I agree a lot of knives would fail or be damaged. I just don't think EVERY single knife will except this one. There is nothing from a physics or strength of materials stand point to put this knife above every single knife that does not have the Triad lock.

Yeah It was a frame lock, a very strong one at that. The shop fixed it because it was covered by Warranty.

Follow my link in my sig and watch the Strider RW-1 video.

I also hurt the ZT 0301 doing it, but I fixed by taking the knife apart and cleaning it up etc.

It's the design of the Tri-Ad that makes the whole system stronger.

I have broken too many knives in the past 30 years doing certain things so I pretty much know what will stress them out to the point of needing some work.

I also have developed a pretty good since of what a folder will take or not take without damage.

 

[Ankerson]

This is what I am talking about here exactly, this will kill most folders so don't even try it.

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

Well I don't really like frame locks and don't think they are all that great. Even ones with thick titanium marketed as 'hard use' knives. It doesn't surprise me that you had 2 frame locks fail.

I have also spent the majority of my life since I was about 5 out in the woods playing and breaking all sorts of toys and machines. I have also spent just as much time in my families welding and machine shop fixing and making things. I like that sort of thing so much I spent almost 5 years getting a mechanical engineering degree. I also have a good feel for what things will handle before they break and a good understanding of how things work and deal with stresses. From an engineering stand point the AXIS, ball bearing, Triad and compression locks should all be very similar in the way they handle applied forces and their overall strength. The only reason one should be much stronger than another is because of the strength and size of the materials used.

I just went out with my Benchmade 14205 and did what you show in your picture. I used a piece of 2x4 to baton the blade at a 45 deg angle into a rock hard piece of heart pine. The knife is in perfect condition as before with no damage or blade play.

 

[myowngod]

Only one way to solve this debate... Ankerson needs to perform same test on similarly priced knives

I liked the video, have more faith in the lawman because of it. I'd like to see it done with a Manix 2... just because it has become my favorite EDC recently...

 

[MikeC]

Dang it Ankerson, just when I had all but convinced myself Cold Steel was crap, all of a sudden there is just a compounding of evidence here and elsewhere to prove me wrong. I'm going get mini lawman right now and probably order a voyager when they finally arrive. I hope your on a commission plan or something.

P.S. Thanks for not sporting tactical knee pads in your video or doing something else stupid like wearing a kevlar vest.

 

[Ankerson]

I don't own a pair of knee pads or a vest.

What folders in the $70 range?

That would be pretty funny as most of them aren't really that strong or heavy duty knives.

I just went out with my Benchmade 14205 and did what you show in your picture. I used a piece of 2x4 to baton the blade at a 45 deg angle into a rock hard piece of heart pine. The knife is in perfect condition as before with no damage or blade play.

Depends on how you hit it...

Hit it on the side of the blade and it will stress it out, hit it on the spine and it won't do much, the whole idea is to stress out the pivot area by doing it incorrectly....

 

[Kaizen1]

Only one way to solve this debate... Ankerson needs to perform same test on similarly priced knives

I liked the video, have more faith in the lawman because of it. I'd like to see it done with a Manix 2... just because it has become my favorite EDC recently...

Seems to me the best way to resolve the debate. It's difficult to determine how "well" something performs if we don't have something else compares to it. In this case, sub $70 folders designed for similar uses would be the place to look. Some knives to possibly compare it to:

Spyderco Manix 2, Endura
Benchmade Griptilian (thumbstud version IMO)
Maybe a Kershaw ET, Blur, Speedbump, RAM
Cold Steel Voyager with the regular lockback

 

[myowngod]

how about a JYDII?

 

[Ankerson]

Seems to me the best way to resolve the debate. It's difficult to determine how "well" something performs if we don't have something else compares to it. In this case, sub $70 folders designed for similar uses would be the place to look. Some knives to possibly compare it to:

Spyderco Manix 2, Endura
Benchmade Griptilian (thumbstud version IMO)
Maybe a Kershaw ET, Blur, Speedbump, RAM
Cold Steel Voyager with the regular lockback

I don't know about you guys, but I am not going to blow money on knives just to break them on purpose when I know for one I will break them and 2 it will void the warranty.

I have an Endura and Voyager and I can tell you that neither one will take it.

 

[Kaizen1]

I don't know about you guys, but I am not going to blow money on knives just to break them on purpose when I know for one I will break them and 2 it will void the warranty.

I have an Endura and Voyager and I can tell you that neither one will take it.

I wouldn't spend that kind of money either, which is why I have no problem suggesting other members to do it instead:thumbup:.

The question however isn't whether you're capable of breaking the knives, but whether they will withstand the same amount and type of stresses as shown in that video. If you haven't done a very similar test on say the Kershaw ET which has a completely different set up from many other folders, I would question how you could be so sure that it couldn't handle such a test.

 

[Ankerson]

I wouldn't spend that kind of money either, which is why I have no problem suggesting other members to do it instead:thumbup:.

The question however isn't whether you're capable of breaking the knives, but whether they will withstand the same amount and type of stresses as shown in that video. If you haven't done a very similar test on say the Kershaw ET which has a completely different set up from many other folders, I would question how you could be so sure that it couldn't handle such a test.

I can tell they can't take it because I can feel them flex in my hands if I put sideways pressure on the blades. IF they flex at all they can't take that kind of abuse. The American Lawman doesn't flex at all.

We are talking about abuse here after all, gross abuse.

I just can't beat on a knife that I know I can break or damage anymore, I have broken or damaged too many knives in the past... I am a lot more picky these days about what I buy and even more picky about how I test them now if they aren't Heavy Duty.

Certain knives I won't beat on because I don't want to risk breaking them.

You won't see a hard use Endura or CS Voyager video because of this, they are good knives, just not heavy duty.

 

[Ankerson]

The last part of this video is about as tough as I get on the Voyager.

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[EricV]

I would think the CBBL could take the force, but doubt the blade on the manix could take that batoning angle. Never seen a spydie bend much.

Ever tried an emerson liner lock? Seems like the titanium liner would deform, but I bet the blades could take the pounding and ask for more.

Seems like traditional back lock, mids, fronts are out because A. The'll develope play, or B. The lock face or pin will shear since they take all the force right on the chin.

I'd bet liner locks are out since downward force is applied straight to the usually long unsupported lock cutout, same for a framelock. Maybe a lawks liner lock, if a thick liner version existed

So that leaves what? the fun ones?

axis, not surprised you say it'd make it with some play, force goes to the liner, but the axis bar takes a hit and hell of a jiggle.

Bolt lock, be interesting to see, and could be fairly cheap since gerber made some.
vibro lock on an opinel, but the pivot would snap first, or the handle.

Ball bearing lock family, bet the lock would be ok with probably little to no play, but the pivots don't look all that solid, and don't think the flat grinds would survive, but the hollow grind might.

Compression lock. If there was a model with a thick saber ground blade I bet it'd give the triad a run for its money, even then a para might make it.

Thoughts on this stuff? Your tests are slowly wearing me down to getting a triad knife. lol