CS New American Lawman Hard Use Video

Horizontal flexing doesn't really say anything about the strength of the lock which is in the vertical direction. I think there are quite a few people who require more than a hunch to back up a claim. Especially one that says 1 lock type is superior to everything else. You don't have to test the other locks that have been tested before to be very strong. But people don't have to believe your claim that the Triad is stronger than those since it is not based on physical evidence.

Surely you must have known that people were going to question such a bold claim that is based on a guess and require some type of proof.
 
One thing with horizontal flex is that even though it doesn't contribute to lock strength, once there is a bit of play in the pivot, and it takes a stress load while flexed it'll apply the force in a way other than inline with the lock face. Which matters on some locks more than others.

If none of us questioned anything we'd all be carrying around chipped flint knives still.
 
FlaMtnBkr said:
Horizontal flexing doesn't really say anything about the strength of the lock which is in the vertical direction. I think there are quite a few people who require more than a hunch to back up a claim. Especially one that says 1 lock type is superior to everything else. You don't have to test the other locks that have been tested before to be very strong. But people don't have to believe your claim that the Triad is stronger than those since it is not based on physical evidence.

Surely you must have known that people were going to question such a bold claim that is based on a guess and require some type of proof.
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That's why they make video cameras. :D :thumbup:

I am always interested in seeing more videos. :) :D
 
Again, great work! I have used a lot of CS-products, and they rock. The reason why CS' new line of knives is so tough, is because the parts used are overbuilt and have incredibly tight tolerances. Andrew Demko has a video where he stomps and smashes(vertical, not horizontal like on the CS-videos) the AK-47 with tri-ad. He also puts 20+ brutal spinewhacks on it. It's build and physics, people, not materials.
 
My early version American Lawman is great. It's smooth when opening and closing, has a strong spring, a deep lock engagement, and a comfortable and secure grip at a reasonable price. I've EDC'd mine for awhile.
The negatives I see are a mediocre blade steel and a slow deployment due to the strong spring.

For a bit more money you can get a Spyderco Manix 2 with a similar (but thinner) grip, less aggressively textured G-10, longer pocket clip and better steel. And made in the USA. It's one of the smoothest opening knives I've handled. I think it would take this kind of use just fine. The blade and grind are plenty robust, the lock adjusts for wear and the handle/pivot has steel liners.
 
NorwayKnifer said:
Again, great work! I have used a lot of CS-products, and they rock. The reason why CS' new line of knives is so tough, is because the parts used are overbuilt and have incredibly tight tolerances. Andrew Demko has a video where he stomps and smashes(vertical, not horizontal like on the CS-videos) the AK-47 with tri-ad. He also puts 20+ brutal spinewhacks on it. It's build and physics, people, not materials.
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The Triad lock is a strong lock and especially on the bigger CS knives they are over built. And it is exactly what you say, physics, that makes a handful of other lock types as strong as the Triad lock. You can only create a strong knife so many ways and deal with forces. All these lock designs rely on transfering forces to a pin that is embeded in the scales and liners.

No one has said the Triad lock is not strong, just that it is not a step above everything else out there. And sure Cold Steel may have tight tolerances, but just as much so as the other top production companies like Benchmade, Spyderco, and Kershaw. Surely you aren't saying Cold Steel products are on the level of Chris Reeve knives? Because that is the next step beyond what the popular production companies produce as far as tolerances are concerned.

And as I have already said, if any knife that uses one of the locks I have talked about is stronger than the next, it is going to be because it is over built. Each lock type should be comparable in their strength and how they deal with applied forces. No one has said there is a strength gain by use of some magic material since all use basically the same materials. Except for the new Triad locks which have got rid of the steel liners the first versions had. Only time will tell how straight G10 holds up to repetitive pounding on the stop pin. But I know tensile strength of G10 is not as strong as stainless steel so there has been some type of sacrifice.
 
FlaMtnBkr said:
The Triad lock is a strong lock and especially on the bigger CS knives they are over built. And it is exactly what you say, physics, that makes a handful of other lock types as strong as the Triad lock. You can only create a strong knife so many ways and deal with forces. All these lock designs rely on transfering forces to a pin that is embeded in the scales and liners.
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With all the testing and R&D that has been done I believe the Designer of the Tri-Ad lock, Custom Knife Maker Andrew Demko knows a lot more than you or any of the rest of us.

There aren't any other locks on the market today that even approaches the strength of the Tri-Ad lock. ;)

That's just how it is....
 
Ankerson said:
With all the testing and R&D that has been done I believe the Designer of the Tri-Ad lock, Custom Knife Maker Andrew Demko knows a lot more than you or any of the rest of us.

There aren't any other locks on the market today that even approaches the strength of the Tri-Ad lock. ;)

That's just how it is....
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You keep saying that. But you don't have a good reason. You sound like a fan boy that found the kool aid stash. ;)

That's just the way it sounds. I don't need to know who made the lock, or that he is a custom knife maker to be able to analyze the way it works. He can know more than anyone else in the world and it doesn't magically make the lock stronger. You, or anyone else, have yet to give a real actual reason why the lock should be stronger than all the rest. It just is, which is not a reason. It's hype.

You keep making these ridiculous claims but with no reasoning. Sounds like we need some more videos of other knives since apparently only videos mean anything. I already pounded an AXIS knife into rock hard heart pine and not a soft piece of white wood without any problems which according to you was impossible and no one should even try it. I'm not making outrageous claims and have nothing to prove. The Triad is another great lock which stands equal with a handful of other locks.
 
Things the triad has going for it:

That lockbar is massive, thicker than 99% of frame locks out there, and lockbacks.

The tooth that sticks into the tang is longer, meaning it fail as soon as the corners round over as is known to happen with most lockbacks.

There is a lot of room for wear, it will develop play eventually but even then it won't likely fail, again because of the long tooth.

Stop pin is big, bigger than most.

It compresses the lock bar's tooth and would need to shear that or over compress it some how in order to get a failure.

These discussions remind me of the ones when the compression lock came out and everyone insisted it was a liner lock, in order for either to fail, you need to break the pins/liners, the blade tang, the pivots, or somehow the lockbar.

Now I wonder how the pins will hold up in unlined g10 over time, as do many others, also wonder about the lock back spring design, as the placement seems far back and a little unsupported, but we'll just have to wait and see.

It might not be the best lock ever as thats a heavy statement, but there are reasons for it being one of the strongest. Also remember that there are no angled or sliding surfaces with the lock, so under pressure the lock bar isn't going to slide off of anything, which is possible with and axis though unlikely, and very possible with a frame/liner lock.
 
I think it's time somebody sends Ankerson an Axis lock knife and one of Spyderco's BBL models. Let him do some tests and report back but until then it's put up or shut up time.
 
FlaMtnBkr said:
You keep saying that. But you don't have a good reason. You sound like a fan boy that found the kool aid stash. ;)

That's just the way it sounds. I don't need to know who made the lock, or that he is a custom knife maker to be able to analyze the way it works. He can know more than anyone else in the world and it doesn't magically make the lock stronger. You, or anyone else, have yet to give a real actual reason why the lock should be stronger than all the rest. It just is, which is not a reason. It's hype.
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In true Cold Steel style, the strength of the Tri-Ad lock was demonstrated, in more ways than one. And of course the entire knife making community was challenged to beat them at it.
Now I don't wanna open a can of worms (I REALLY don't), but the challenge was made.
And for whatever reason, there were no takers.

I already pounded an AXIS knife into rock hard heart pine and not a soft piece of white wood without any problems which according to you was impossible and no one should even try it.
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The Axis lock is very good and I don't think anyone said what you claim.

I'm not making outrageous claims and have nothing to prove.
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And then you go right ahead and make an outrageous, based-on-nothing claim:

The Triad is another great lock which stands equal with a handful of other locks.
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How do YOU know? The onus is on you to prove this claim. Would it be so outlandish that someone actually managed to design a lock that is way stronger, tougher and more reliable than any other? When Crhis Reeve designed the framelock the global knife community went apes**t. And understandably so, even if it's 'only' an evolution of the Michael Walker linerlock, which was itself 'only' an improvement of an existing design.

The Espada was shown to support over 600 lbs. THAT is outrageous. I'd hate to try that with a framelock. An Axis lock maybe, but not just any BM model. The Rukus might be able to take it, but I'd give anyone 50/50 odds at best.

You are the one making an unsubstantiated claim, not Ankerson.
 
EricV said:
Things the triad has going for it:

That lockbar is massive, thicker than 99% of frame locks out there, and lockbacks.

The tooth that sticks into the tang is longer, meaning it fail as soon as the corners round over as is known to happen with most lockbacks.

There is a lot of room for wear, it will develop play eventually but even then it won't likely fail, again because of the long tooth.

Stop pin is big, bigger than most.

It compresses the lock bar's tooth and would need to shear that or over compress it some how in order to get a failure.

These discussions remind me of the ones when the compression lock came out and everyone insisted it was a liner lock, in order for either to fail, you need to break the pins/liners, the blade tang, the pivots, or somehow the lockbar.

Now I wonder how the pins will hold up in unlined g10 over time, as do many others, also wonder about the lock back spring design, as the placement seems far back and a little unsupported, but we'll just have to wait and see.

It might not be the best lock ever as thats a heavy statement, but there are reasons for it being one of the strongest. Also remember that there are no angled or sliding surfaces with the lock, so under pressure the lock bar isn't going to slide off of anything, which is possible with and axis though unlikely, and very possible with a frame/liner lock.
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It is a strong lock no doubt about it. But so are the AXIS, Ball bearing, and compression lock. And they all deal with blade closing forces by transfering them through a pin/ball/piece of metal to the liners.

I don't include liner/ frame locks in the strongest locks group. They have too many things that can happen with them. Also, the way the forces are applied to an AXIS lock, nothing should ever slip. And I have never read or heard of that happening, ever.

Again, it is a strong lock no one has said anything bad about it. But it is not steps above everything else. If a knife with the Triad lock is stronger than other knives it is because everything has been beefed up and over sized, not because the lock is somehow stronger. I can take a crate 350 and replace everything with strong aftermarket parts. Now it can handle a 500 hp shot of nitrous and not explode. But it can do that because everything was made stronger. It is still a crate 350. Any of the top locks can be beefed up and oversized and take a beating and be stronger than the rest in that particular knife.
 
crom said:
I think it's time somebody sends Ankerson an Axis lock knife and one of Spyderco's BBL models. Let him do some tests and report back but until then it's put up or shut up time.
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I'd love to see it. I'd even contribute towards such a test. Not my Manix II or Rukus though. :D
 
crom said:
I think it's time somebody sends Ankerson an Axis lock knife and one of Spyderco's BBL models. Let him do some tests and report back but until then it's put up or shut up time.
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Right, because that's what we do? :confused:

Send him your own BBL. If you don't like what he says refute it with your own opinions. Make sure you back them up with something substantial though....
 
crom said:
I think it's time somebody sends Ankerson an Axis lock knife and one of Spyderco's BBL models. Let him do some tests and report back but until then it's put up or shut up time.
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I don't think that will happen. ;)

I really don't think anyone wants me beating on their knives with a chance they would be broken in the process.

What I did with the CS Lawman was serious abuse to prove a point, nothing more.
 
philwar said:
In true Cold Steel style, the strength of the Tri-Ad lock was demonstrated, in more ways than one. And of course the entire knife making community was challenged to beat them at it.
Now I don't wanna open a can of worms (I REALLY don't), but the challenge was made.
And for whatever reason, there were no takers.


The Axis lock is very good and I don't think anyone said what you claim.


And then you go right ahead and make an outrageous, based-on-nothing claim:



How do YOU know? The onus is on you to prove this claim. Would it be so outlandish that someone actually managed to design a lock that is way stronger, tougher and more reliable than any other? When Crhis Reeve designed the framelock the global knife community went apes**t. And understandably so, even if it's 'only' an evolution of the Michael Walker linerlock, which was itself 'only' an improvement of an existing design.

The Espada was shown to support over 600 lbs. THAT is outrageous. I'd hate to try that with a framelock. An Axis lock maybe, but not just any BM model. The Rukus might be able to take it, but I'd give anyone 50/50 odds at best.

You are the one making an unsubstantiated claim, not Ankerson.
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Really?

I said it was one of the best. I don't have anything to prove. So you can try to turn it around all day long, I don't care. I was making a criticism about a lack of reasoning. It is not meant as an attack but constructive criticism. I figured someone would try to pick apart everything I said and turn it around. But I don't really care, and again, I have nothing to prove so don't expect me to jump up and down and try to appease you.

There were no takers because other companies don't feel the need to put out 'proof' videos. That is not they way they advertise, I don't know why. I don't know how show casing your product is suddenly a challenge to the rest of the world. I guess to some people everything everyone does is viewed as a challenge or competition.

And it was said not to try it with the AXIS lock. Go back a page to where the big still shot of the video is.
 
FlaMtnBkr said:
Really?

I said it was one of the best. I don't have anything to prove. So you can try to turn it around all day long, I don't care. I was making a criticism about a lack of reasoning. It is not meant as an attack but constructive criticism. I figured someone would try to pick apart everything I said and turn it around. But I don't really care, and again, I have nothing to prove so don't expect me to jump up and down and try to appease you.

There were no takers because other companies don't feel the need to put out 'proof' videos. That is not they way they advertise, I don't know why. I don't know how show casing your product is suddenly a challenge to the rest of the world. I guess to some people everything everyone does is viewed as a challenge or competition.

And it was said not to try it with the AXIS lock. Go back a page to where the big still shot of the video is.
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If another Company had something that was as strong or stronger they would come out and say so either in Videos or in their advertisements. They would do so because it would be very good marketing, smart marketing.

But what they won't do is come out and admit that the Tri-Ad is stronger than their locks, that would be stupid and foolish on their part. The other knife companies aren't stupid or foolish. I am sure they have all tested it by now so they know how good it is just as CS has tested their products.

So what they do is the smart thing and say nothing. ;)
 
Ankerson said:
If another Company had something that was as strong or stronger they would come out and say so either in Videos or in their advertisements. They would do so because it would be very good marketing, smart marketing.

But what they won't do is come out and admit that the Tri-Ad is stronger than their locks, that would be stupid and foolish on their part. The other knife companies aren't stupid or foolish. I am sure they have all tested it by now so they know how good it is just as CS has tested their products.

So what they do is the smart thing and say nothing. ;)
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Really? Then how come they weren't doing it before the Triad lock existed either? Back when they were definitely the strongest? Because not everyone feels the need to prove everything like 12 year old boys with a ruler. Just because it is Cold Steel's approach doesn't mean it is every other companies style. That type of advertising only works on certain people, and others could care less.
 
I wouldn't go as far as to say "repulsive" but I agree on the hype.
 
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