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Custom Folding Chopper

Lorien,
Folder looks good and should be a good size for your use. IMO your choice of steel is perfect for your wet rainforest type folder chopper. I have made a few knives out of the S35VN and like it better than S30V for the finish it takes. Should be plenty strong for this job too, great choice.

Eric
 
thanks Eric, coming from a man who makes some kickass working blades I'll take your advice on the steel! S35VN I think is the winner
Almost got what I'm hoping is the final design done. Probably spend a couple days tweaking it and then off she goes in the mail for a run through the CAD machine after Blade.
 
Hey Lorien, S35VN is really that good. :)

Just for fun, I've attached pics of a destruction test I performed on a Loveless-designed Dixon blade in CPM S35VN (HRC 60) back in February. The stock thickness was 0.200" and the edge thickness was 0.025".

It was thrown five times at a block wall (for comparison a 1095 blade of similar dimensions, heat treated to HRC 63, full quench, triple tempered, shattered the first hit) and it did not break:

2011-02-23081401.jpg


Next, it was sandwiched under approx. 150+ lbs of concrete with the weakest theoretical area (holes for the guard pins) on the edge. I overhead slammed a 50lb slab of concrete on the handle:

2011-02-23081302.jpg


It did not break for 3 solid hits -in fact, the concrete slab broke. The fourth impact snapped the handle. (I was shocked! I thought it would snap the first hit :eek:).

What's interesting is that it didn't break along the holes (which were countersunk -countersinking works!) instead it broke along the ricasso a tad above where the guard sits, I assume this is where the concrete slab made contact.

The grain was also incredibly clean:

2011-02-23093218.jpg


A complete knife would be even stronger as the guard and slabs of micarta would provide lateral support.

Imho, CPM S35VN is well suited for hard use applications.

Good luck on developing your folder and keep us posted. :thumbup:
 
man, that is hardcore! Thanks a lot for posting those pics, I don't any of us has ever, (or will ever again) see a knife like that brutalized in such a fashion
Keep up the good work : )

I've been having computer issues, but I was able to upload what I think will be the final design, (with tweaking of course).
Notice the two stop pins- one through the handle and the other through the blade. I figure that this feature will add a lot of support, but I haven't seen it used before so maybe there's something I don't know about which makes it impossible.

Any and all design advice and feedback would be appreciated!

IMG_5154.jpg
 
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1) With regard to the design above: I like the idea of multiple stop pins. But, have you considered the inclusion of an Extrema-ratio style removable stop pin for converting the knife into an ersatz-fixed blade? Three stop pins might seem a little paranoid (rebuttal: less careless?) but the feature would not demand any major change to the design -- negligible increases to weight or complexity -- and even more capability. The removable pin is designed to take stress off the primary lock or pivot if the knife is going to be used for some sort of planned, but potentially damaging task (you NEED to baton something, for instance).


2) Other ways of thinking about this sort of knife; your design looks great, robust, etc. -- and I am not trying to get you to change your mind about what you want -- this is just a separate line of thought about how one might build a folding chopper. Really, these are just out of the box suggestions -- I would want to test either or both to see how well they worked -- I'm too busy to experiment with this sort of thing right now...

If it's for wilderness use -- I would care less about urban-carry legality issues, and/or speed of deployment; I would want extreme ruggedness, mechanical simplicity, ease of repair, and a design that permitted in-field reconfiguration into a fixed blade or spear should the device be damaged. Reconfiguration of this device must be possible with other multiple-purpose tools or supplies not carried on my person for this purpose alone (paracord, Kevlar fly-thread, belt buckle, etc = kosher, dedicated reconfiguration kit = not kosher).

Given that, my first thought might be to make an oversized balisong.

If you want something more complicated to make, but just as robust: a pantographic folder.

Both are exceedingly simple and robust. And, the pantographic locking mechanism has the best blade:handle ratio in the folded configuration. Both could also accommodate a little Extrema-ratio inspired pin-lock for mechanically preventing failure of the lock.
 
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Lorien:

First of all, those schematics look like they were drawn by hand, which is COOL. I'm not sure I could accurately do that in, say, SolidWorks, and I'm a MechE student!

Second, as for the dual stop pins, I realize this might not be a problem, but consider how much fine-tuning (or wear, assuming the lock has a large enough range in which it can still lock up solidly) it would take to get three (four, including the pivot) of contact to seat solidly and with well-distributed force. It can still be done, either by hand or by wear, but I'm not sure how much benefit you would gain from it relative to the time. My gut impression is that a stop pin and then another stop pin that isn't quite making contact would be nowhere near as strong as two equally-seated pins.

Considering I should be working on my final project instead of reading BF, take this entire commentary with as much salt as you desire!

-- Lucky Bob
 
1) With regard to the design above: I like the idea of multiple stop pins. But, have you considered the inclusion of an Extrema-ratio style removable stop pin for converting the knife into an ersatz-fixed blade?

Actually, I was thinking of a sliding latch which would block the liner lock from disengaging.


2) Other ways of thinking about this sort of knife; your design looks great, robust, etc. -- and I am not trying to get you to change your mind about what you want -- this is just a separate line of thought about how one might build a folding chopper. Really, these are just out of the box suggestions -- I would want to test either or both to see how well they worked -- I'm too busy to experiment with this sort of thing right now...

If it's for wilderness use -- I would care less about urban-carry legality issues, and/or speed of deployment; I would want extreme ruggedness, mechanical simplicity, ease of repair, and a design that permitted in-field reconfiguration into a fixed blade or spear should the device be damaged. Reconfiguration of this device must be possible with other multiple-purpose tools or supplies not carried on my person for this purpose alone (paracord, Kevlar fly-thread, belt buckle, etc = kosher, dedicated reconfiguration kit = not kosher).

Given that, my first thought might be to make an oversized balisong.


that is a VERY interesting concept. I'm going to have to look into that.


If you want something more complicated to make, but just as robust: a pantographic folder.


I don't know what a pantographic folder is. Great, more research!



Lucky Bob- the fellow who will likely make this knife makes knives with very tight tolerances, and could likely pull off the dual stop pin thing. Obviously, the thickness of tang stock relative to the thickness and resting position of the liner lock will take into account any potential wear, although the lock bar face will be carbidized, interfacing with S35VN at high hardness so wear probably won't enter the equation readily. A significant concern is lock failure for any reason, and adding another mechanical device to lock the lock would be preferable for a knife like this. Just gotta figure it out...

Ps. to design these things, I use a .3mm mechanical pencil and 005 permanent marker, a ruler, flexible and fixed french curves and one of them protractajators. And an eraser- probably the most important of the bunch ; )
 
IMG_5170.jpg


I think this is pretty much the final design. That's a Benchmade Skirmish for comparison, and my JW Smith edc, (about 3.5" blade). As you can see, this is going to be a doozy.

In my dreams, this would have a unidirectional carbon fiber handle with ti bolsters, but I will likely have to be satisfied with straight g10 handles due to cost- although I haven't gotten a quotation yet. We'll see. At this point, it's gonna take awhile to get this thing made, I'll keep you posted as developments unfold.

ps. pun intended:D
 
Lorien,
i'm wondering what effect the adding more arch, as your last drawings have shown, will have to where most of the impacts are likely to occur - to the edge? Last inch, or so? And where the tip is now lower, what advantage does this offer in a small blade? The kukri, (and i have never used one myself) offers a significance of leverage, which is related to size and weight also, yes?
Interesting project!
David
 
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I really like this drawing, looks like a great design for general use. Dont throw it out. :)

054eef99.jpg
 
this project hit the wall some time ago, as my emails to the maker I had in mind to make it went unanswered.

since then, I've learned a lot about the aspects of design from a mechanical standpoint, looking through the eyes of a producer/manufacturer.

all my recent patterns are quite a bit cleaner and more refined. I've just about completed 3 new patterns which flow substantially better than my earlier sketchings and they are more producible. There are likely 2 dozen folder patterns in my portfolio, I quite enjoy designing them although they are a little less convenient to sketch out than fixed blades. The little flipper I just finished I think could really go over well if a mass producer were to add it to their product line ;)

I'm glad this thread came back up, as I have two different patterns out there with two different makers. One has about a 7" blade and the other is 5"+. Nothing is written in stone with either, but if anything transpires I will post it up here.
 
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