Custom Knifemaker Lee Williams' Anti-"Flipper" (Immediate Reseller) Stance

shinyedges said:
Thanks for posting that, I don't have an instagram. He just won himself another customer, I have looked at his work with hogue frequently and this seals it, I'll support this man.
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He's a very nice guy and I like a lot of his designs
 
I'll mention these juicy tidbits, too -- Lee's and Allen's posts were "liked" by a bunch of custom makers that I am familiar with:

Les George
Gavin Hawk
Tashi Bharucha
David Curtiss
Matthew Lerch
Mikkel Willumsen
Ben Tendick
Bob Terzuola
Geoff Blauvelt
Sergey Shirogorov
Jonathan McNees
Peter Carey
Elijah Isham
Dmitry Sinkevich

... and dozens more who were obviously knifemakers but I just didn't know them

I wonder if this rejection of flipping at shows will become a "thing?"
 
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SpySmasher said:
I'll mention these juicy tidbits, too -- Lee's and Allen's posts were "liked" by a bunch of custom makers that I am familiar with:

Les George
Gavin Hawk
Tashi Bharucha
David Curtiss
Matthew Lerch
Mikkel Willumsen
Ben Tendick
Bob Terzuola
Geoff Blauvelt
Sergey Shirogorov
Jonathan McNees
Peter Carey
Elijah Isham
Dmitry Sinkevich

... and dozens more who were obviously knifemakers but I just didn't know them

I wonder if this rejection of flipping at shows will become a "thing?"
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Don't know but I like it. A lot. The flippers get hated on by their peers and the makers, squeeze them suckers like a zit.
 
VernonRemington said:
Can anyone say specifically what happened at TKI that made it worse than other shows or was this the straw that broke the camel’s back?

Allen Elishewitz just posted on Instagram a similar sentiment to Lee Williams.
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I did see multiple makers talking about how they don't plan on going to the TKI in the future because they were frisked by security at their hotel and weren't even allowed to carry pocket knives around. Apparently security in Vegas has gotten SUPER tight at a majority of the major resort hotels, and one maker even talks about how he was frisked multiple times before he even got to his room the first night, and that they wouldn't even let him put his knives back in his car, because it was parked on property. This was the Wynn, I believe. I definitely am not ever staying there.
 
Wolverine666 said:
I never thought of that. This now alters my perception of the situation.
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Dude, seriously. Several people posted about one of the higher profile maker auctions at BLADE last year where a certain person I won't name was sitting on the floor with several tickets fanned around he...them on the floor. Kinda suspicious when it was supposed to be one name, one ticket. But that's none of my business.
 
Quiet said:
I did see multiple makers talking about how they don't plan on going to the TKI in the future because they were frisked by security at their hotel and weren't even allowed to carry pocket knives around. Apparently security in Vegas has gotten SUPER tight at a majority of the major resort hotels, and one maker even talks about how he was frisked multiple times before he even got to his room the first night, and that they wouldn't even let him put his knives back in his car, because it was parked on property. This was the Wynn, I believe. I definitely am not ever staying there.
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I'll vote with my measley wallet and avoid private businesses that don't respect my god given right to preserve my family's life. I haven't seen any of that on the news.
 
Quiet said:
Dude, seriously. Several people posted about one of the higher profile maker auctions at BLADE last year where a certain person I won't name was sitting on the floor with several tickets fanned around he...them on the floor. Kinda suspicious when it was supposed to be one name, one ticket. But that's none of my business.
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Wow , I feel like I’ve been living under a rock. I guess this doesn’t affect me directly at the moment. But who’s to say that it never will? Quite an eye opener.
 
Wolverine666 said:
Wow , I feel like I’ve been living under a rock. I guess this doesn’t affect me directly at the moment. But who’s to say that it never will? Quite an eye opener.
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Well, you won't see a lot of this discussion here, a lot of it happens on Instagram where people (to include makers!!) can make posts, and you can see them if you're quick enough (sometimes you have to be, because a lot of makers will take posts down if they get too real, and drama gets properly underway). The fact of the matter that no one disputes though, is that a lot, a LOT of knives are sold before the doors at BLADE even open on Friday morning. I don't even have a specific list of who all sells out like this, because it seems to change year to year, but keep a watch on Arizona Customs and Ebosshoss and Recon1 a day before big knife shows, the day of, of the day directly after, and you're going to see some serious steel being posted up. BLADE, TKI, the USN Gathering, etc. You'll see knives posted up you never even saw on the makers' table. Others, you'll have seen, and you see what's being asked for it and it's disgusting. I saw a knife I had held last year, get posted up the next day...$2,500(!!!!?) markup. Not even kidding.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Really? Can you point to where I suggested outlawing it? Or where I started arguing about what it is? You're making a strawman argument and pushing hypotheticals in a thread where we're discussing an actual, blatant, real world example of flipping.
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I was the one asking about how we define flipping, and everyone was willing to jump on board saying that flipping is awful, but no one was willing to propose what exactly it is.

I know we've had this discussion before, and it's basically always the same thing, so I will just continue to be a bit bemused and duck out now, since I rather like all the people who disagree with me so much and don't think there's much point in continuing to chase this perennial question in circles.
 
OilMan said:
Add T Rexford to the list.
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For those interested, Todd does not mention flippers directly, but that is perhaps implied? I'm not sure:

Todd Rexford said:
... I need to speak about the problem of time allotment at the TKI show. My auctions always end at the specified time on my auction sheets. Unfortunately, for the second year in a row, a postponement had to be made due to the show promoters not finishing their planned lottery proceedings. This is absolutely unacceptable to me. It allows the possibility of unethical behavior and is completely unfair to the participants. I will not be a part of it. ...
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He had more to say along these lines and also mentions being hassled by security.
 
SpySmasher said:
Yup. It is certainly an option.
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It's the only option that would work ever work.
You can't arbitrarily force people not to resell their own property.



As far as Vegas security, I used to buy booths at 2 tradeshows (not knife related) per year in Vegas.
We stopped a few years ago because of the way they treat vendors.

It's not like it used to be.
Some shows and Casinos have gotten nuts with security, and they don't show the vendors respect anymore.
 
To me a flipper is someone who buys the knife strictly to sell it or profit off of it. Not a collector that bought a knife that happened to appreciate in value and sells it later on.

My beef is these dealers getting multiple tickets/chances. The system is clearly rigged and I refuse to play. I’ve never attended a show and after reading what goes on, don’t plan on it.

We as a community need to stop supporting places like Azck, recon1, etc for their bs.
 
Tell the makers next time make 3 knives. Put one in the lottery and if the person who won it is flipping right there interject and undersell them with the stuff you kept under the table.

Yeah I know not a perfect practical solution but it would be funny to see in person.

I see the makers going into a lottery like that to build a buzz and draw folks to the show and make it possible for someone to jump the line on nice knife. A pretty fair thing to do in the online age to get people to pay for an admission.
 
Buying something that I can sell at a profit is not something that I would consider unethical. Conducting the sale at the place of business where I bought it is, if not unethical, certainly tasteless. I understand the views on this practice, but I also realize that once somebody buys something, it's theirs to do with as they please, even if I think it's inappropriate. Like the guy who put ape hangers on the Triumph that I sold him. Oh, the humanity! That still hurts.
 
SpySmasher said:
I'll mention these juicy tidbits, too -- Lee's and Allen's posts were "liked" by a bunch of custom makers that I am familiar with:
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Ironically, some of those makers you listed (without mentioning names) clearly help perpetuate the flipper market - including working hand-in-hand with some of the worst perpetrators.

Quiet said:
I did see multiple makers talking about how they don't plan on going to the TKI in the future because they were frisked by security at their hotel and weren't even allowed to carry pocket knives around. Apparently security in Vegas has gotten SUPER tight at a majority of the major resort hotels, and one maker even talks about how he was frisked multiple times before he even got to his room the first night, and that they wouldn't even let him put his knives back in his car, because it was parked on property. This was the Wynn, I believe. I definitely am not ever staying there.
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I saw a few posts along these lines as well. Which is weird, cause I was sitting with a few friends at the Lobby Bar at Bally's after TKI, comparing knives, and no one said anything. I wonder how much of the "harassment" they experienced was because of the knives themselves, versus security singling out people walking around with "tactical bling" and dragging those large heavy-duty storage cases behind them.

Quiet said:
You'll see knives posted up you never even saw on the makers' table
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So much this. Without naming makers, I was inside the LVCKS within a minute of doors opening. The first maker I went to already had half his knives "pre-sold". The second maker I went to still had a decent selection, but now I'm seeing knives "from the LVCKS" listed on dealer sites from said maker, that were NOT on his table within 2-3 minutes of the start of the show.
 
SpySmasher said:
Did anyone see Lee Williams' brief rant on Instagram about a pair of his customs being flipped (immediately resold) at the recent TKI show?
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Interestingly, his posts are now gone. Given that they didn't seem to be offensive (and hence, not likely to be taken down by Instagram themselves), I wonder which dealer twisted his arm.
 
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