Custom Knifemaker Lee Williams' Anti-"Flipper" (Immediate Reseller) Stance

I'd be curious how many who hate the practice, would admit to paying inflated prices themselves. I know I've done it. Not with knives but the principal is the same. I didn't like it. But I did it because at the end of the day, it was worth it to me.

A old saying comes to mind. A item is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. I do feel exceptions must be made for necessities. But very little in life is necessary.
 
b00n said:
Did you read my entire post? I purposely exaggerated what I said, of course nobody needs a (expensive) knife. I was merely asking where do you draw the line?
Click to expand...

The line is drawn at need.

Taking advantage of someone who needs what you have is unethical. Charging whatever someone is willing to pay for a luxury item is not.

Flipping such an item right in front of the guy who sold it to you for a lower price is certainly *rude*, but it isn’t unethical.

I truly admire those who try to sell their wares at a fair price to those whom they consider to be their primary audience, but—to be blunt, and without any intention of being unkind—once you decide to accept money in exchange for a thing you should not expect to retain any control over what happens to the item once the transaction is complete. The fact that you still feel an emotional attachment to it is completely irrelevant.

Makers who don’t want their knives “flipped” have two options:

- Sell only to collector-acquaintances
- Auction their knives

Complaining on social media is utterly pointless.
 
21bangbang said:
Ethics are very subjective. If flipping knives is the worst of it, I'm ok with that world. If I'm being honest I don't find it unethical at all. It's not a necessity, and both sides of the deal enter willingly. No one is forcing people to pay these prices. I get why collectors don't like it, but they're the ones supporting the secondary market, so it seems rather silly to me.
Click to expand...
If it was only the buyer and seller, then yes. But it also effects the maker. This is why it needs to be dealt with.

ggw said:
What about not using lotteries at all? Just sell your products to customers (use your website, established dealers etc.).
Click to expand...
That has its own host of problems. Many folks don't want to deal with a waiting list, or the problems of other methods. Lotteries are seen as a playing field leveler to many.
 
gadgetgeek said:
If it was only the buyer and seller, then yes. But it also effects the maker. This is why it needs to be dealt with.


That has its own host of problems. Many folks don't want to deal with a waiting list, or the problems of other methods. Lotteries are seen as a playing field leveler to many.
Click to expand...

I would be surprised if a lot of the makers who's knives command these hugh markups hate the practice. It makes the knives even more exclusive and the brand more desirable. This is more true to the real high end and not just a SpiderCo demanding a few extra bucks. The Hugh markups also make what I consider some absurd prices from the source much more palatable, keeping them flying off the shelves. I'd bet my life some of the big names even purposely build way fewer than they could to help drive desire and prices. I don't see how it hurts the makers aside from feelings. It's generally known as good for business when dealing with uber high end stuff.
 
tyyreaun said:
Interestingly, his posts are now gone. Given that they didn't seem to be offensive (and hence, not likely to be taken down by Instagram themselves), I wonder which dealer twisted his arm.
Click to expand...
I asked Lee and basically he felt that he'd made his point and didn't want to host a comment thread any more.
 
6 pages and nobody mentioned the collector willing to pay the exorbitant price. Is he stupid or rich or just really wanting that knife?
 
Officer's Match said:
So which Sprint PM2 was this?
Click to expand...
Can't like that comment enough!!!!

I was looking at a custom knife made by my uncle before he passed away..... on ebay. I had planned on making an offer on the knife.

I was in a conversation with a knife dealer I considered my self on some what friendly terms with. We were chatting on face book messenger. I told him I was excited to find the knife.....he contacted the seller and scooped the knife out from under me before I could contact him (I had done research and talked about what the seller had actually paid for the knife... which informed the offer I planned on making). The dealer got the knife and immediately listed it at a 100% markup from what he paid for it (while chuckling at my stupidness at tipping him off, I'm sure!!!).
 
Last edited:
21bangbang said:
I would be surprised if a lot of the makers who's knives command these hugh markups hate the practice. It makes the knives even more exclusive and the brand more desirable. This is more true to the real high end and not just a SpiderCo demanding a few extra bucks. The Hugh markups also make what I consider some absurd prices from the source much more palatable, keeping them flying off the shelves. I'd bet my life some of the big names even purposely build way fewer than they could to help drive desire and prices. I don't see how it hurts the makers aside from feelings. It's generally known as good for business when dealing with uber high end stuff.
Click to expand...
I don't think its fair for either of us to speak for someone else. Each business is different, some handle scale, some don't. When you start blurring the line between practicality and art it gets even harder. Suffice to say, I don't think its responsible to say that no matter what happens, high prices are good for anyone. There are cases where that is not true.
 
Bigfattyt said:
Can't like that comment enough!!!!

I was looking at a custom knife made by my uncle before he passed away..... on ebay. I had planned on making an offer on the knife.

I was in a conversation with a knife dealer I considered my self on some what friendly terms with. We were chatting on face book messenger. I told him I was excited to find the knife.....he contacted the seller and scooped the knife out from under me before I could contact him (I had done research and talked about what the seller had actually paid for the knife... which informed the offer I planned on making). The dealer got the knife and immediately listed it at a 100% markup from what he paid for it (while chuckling at my stupidness at tipping him off, I'm sure!!!).
Click to expand...
IMHO that dealer's name should be outed.
 
Officer's Match said:
IMHO that dealer's name should be outed.
Click to expand...
+1

Bigfattyt, sorry to hear about the lost opportunity with your uncle's knife. :(
Greed is ever present. Acquaintances or supposed "friends" trust betrayed for things. All collecting fields are full of it. It's sickening to watch.

That being said: It's good to know who you cannot trust as much as who you can.
 
One way for smiths who have this 'problem' of over-inflated resale 'flippers' - very simple:
Keep selling them at the 'regular' price point non-stop until demand is satisfied.
IE - work at keeping the supply in tune with demand; they sell more knives, and flippers would learn a lesson.
(even if it turned into a future-order-list ... that pressure would lower the instant flippers profit margins and they'd be discouraged)

Sadly, custom hand makers can't really do this in a practical way, time is time, and it's not practical to 'hire help' to make it happen.
...
The fact that spyderco (& others) COULD EASILY do this for 'sprint' runs and they don't, really turns me off of trying to buy any of their sprint runs, which really turned out to be a blessing in a way, forcing me to expand my horizons. I found much better value from other vendors/mfgs as a result.
 
Auctions are also difficult. There is the logistics of running one, getting info out there that a knife is for sale. Then there is always the chance that the buyer who got swept up in auction fever gets cold feet. If the knife was not seen in person, then they can claim an issue with the photos. At the end of the day its hassle that many wouldn't want to deal with, and auctions can go dead for any number of reasons, that can also have an effect on the makers brand. I'm sure it works for some, but its not a panacea. If several makers were part of an auction together at a show, that might help neutralize some of the artificial volatility.
 
unwisefool said:
No, auctions would just make it unobtainable for most people
Click to expand...
As opposed to now?

gadgetgeek said:
Auctions are also difficult. There is the logistics of running one, getting info out there that a knife is for sale. Then there is always the chance that the buyer who got swept up in auction fever gets cold feet. If the knife was not seen in person, then they can claim an issue with the photos. At the end of the day its hassle that many wouldn't want to deal with, and auctions can go dead for any number of reasons, that can also have an effect on the makers brand. I'm sure it works for some, but its not a panacea. If several makers were part of an auction together at a show, that might help neutralize some of the artificial volatility.
Click to expand...

OK so how about setting up knife auctions instead of lotteries at shows (which is what you're suggesting at the end I think)? Similar to gun or car auctions which can be bid on via the internet, phone or in person. You can't have cold feet if you've placed your bid. It's legally binding. The knives will be sold for the price they can actually reach which is good for the maker, they will go directly to people who want the knife and it would automatically cut out the middle man (flipper) as the max price the knife will achieve in the short term has already been reached.
 
Last edited:
FullMetalJackass said:
Welcome into the knife making world of 2019, now mostly run/regulated on/by/ Instagram.
Click to expand...

This exactly.
Social media has removed the relationship factor of knifemakers/collectors/users.
Now when you go to a table at Blade there is no longer a desire to create a long term relationship between you and the maker. It's just about the sale here and now and how many people entered your draw.
Call me old fashioned but as has been previously pointed out.......its a custom knife, I can live without it and I will direct my Dollars at those makers who still value relationships and the art.

Bigfattyt said:
Can't like that comment enough!!!!

I was looking at a custom knife made by my uncle before he passed away..... on ebay. I had planned on making an offer on the knife.

I was in a conversation with a knife dealer I considered my self on some what friendly terms with. We were chatting on face book messenger. I told him I was excited to find the knife.....he contacted the seller and scooped the knife out from under me before I could contact him (I had done research and talked about what the seller had actually paid for the knife... which informed the offer I planned on making). The dealer got the knife and immediately listed it at a 100% markup from what he paid for it (while chuckling at my stupidness at tipping him off, I'm sure!!!).
Click to expand...

What a disgraceful thing to do.......properly unethical. When you sell your ethics and morality for a few Dollars you totally devalue your soul. I assure you that karma is a bitch.

As a Busse collector I have had guys sell me knives that were not for sale just because they knew I really wanted them.
The Busse guys are a brilliant community and stand out as how we should all behave.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top