I think WWG has summed it up well. Guys, this is a subject that is just about dead with most makers. both Forgers and stock removal makers. We really don't care! We make our knives the way we do because it is the way we want to make them.
Well Mike you are fortunate in that you have an eight year back log of orders. Many makers have to make knives the way the paying customer want them to.
IMO, its fine for makers to utilize automated machinery to produce their knives, however their needs to be disclosure if in fact the maker is just setting the program for the machine to form the knife rather than grinding himself.
Kevin, there has been forging going on in factory settings for over a century. Just take a look at the past efforts of Sheffield England. Solingen Germany has been mixing both forging and stock removal for their knives for a very long time. Most forgers, with the exception of a very few, forge, then stock remove. It is the way a knife is made in most shops. Well mostly anyway. I know of at least one forger who has CNC, and EDM in his shop. Are the blades any less forged? I have neither in my shop. My loss. I'm just old fashion I guess.
One of the best known forgers of this century was Bo Randal. Many of his models were forged to shape, then ground. Many of them were hollow ground.) Oh! the Sacrilege!!! The ABS wouldn't like that). Which is a lot of the point. A lot of the feeling I am hearing from the collectors, such as those here on the forums, comes from advertising hype. If many of you actually came to our shops as witnessed just how we make a knife, much of this argument would be over very quickly. Like I said. It has been over between the makers for the most part for years. We discuss fitting and finish techniques. Sharpening techniques, an other technical areas of knife making. Not the Black arts myths and nostalgia parts of it. We leave this part to the collectors. Although the profit it generates is welcome!
I agree collectors should visit maker's shops it is a positive and worthwhile experience for both collector and maker.
The things we do are more alike than different. It goes something like this. Forger- Take a piece of steel of proper alloy. Heat and forge it to a satiable shape for the knife desired. Take said piece of forged steel to the grinder and refine (Stock remove) the profile and shape. Grind the bevels further, Flat Hollow, Convex. Heat treat, back to the grinder. Further refinement. Fit the parts in their proper alignment and fit, and back to the grinder to make everything come together. Stock removal-Take a piece of steel of the proper alloy that has been press and roll forged to the proper thickness from the foundry. Take it to the grinder and profile the desired outline. Grind in the bevels. Flat, hollow, convex. Heat treat. Back to the grinder for further refinement. Fit the parts in their proper alignment and fit. Back to the grinder to make ever thing come together!
NCC. Water Jet, Laser, EDAM. These are separate issues. They can be used by either craftsman. Or not. I choose not. Because of this, I will die poor! But I will remain true to what I want my knives to represent. No doubt, to wwg, I appear a fool. One great thing about being a fool. We're too foolish to know how bad we have it. Haa!! I live in bliss!!!
All jokes aside, Randall did a fine job in his day. He built a business to be proud of. What I don't under stand is, with all the Randall accomplishments, and fame. Any where the Randall name is brought up, some one always points out-"Randal's aren't real Customs- or hand made". I see this on the forums, in books, magazine articles and hear it at shows.The Randal facility is almost always referred to as a small factory. Why. Yes I know the Randall story. And I think it is one to be proud of. But I got in serious trouble on one of the forums a year ago by trying to help out a customer of a well known maker. The maker employee's quite a few workers. And they do a fine job. My mistake was telling the customer to contact the factory. " Oh, If i had just said facility", I would have been saved a lot of grief. Seems that what I said was a huge insult. What is a compliment to Randal, Is an insult to another. What I am trying to say here, is that there is a hell of a lot more going on in the Knife Business than whether a hammer or ram smacked a piece of steel.
The biggest think separating the two camps now days is selection. I'll get blasted for this, but I can spot a forged knife for the most part instantly. Why? Does forging make a knife look different? NO! But the modern forged knife has taken on a certain look. This is all fine and good, but it has narrowed the scope of the makers to a large extent. In the Stock removal circles the sky in the limit on design. There is no end to the styles. From the sublime to the wild and even totally ridiculous. In order to capture a larger segment to the market, More has to be offered. The same old-same old won't get it for ever. I am a bit confused by the required look in the first place. Remember the Randall's. You had to check the marking on the logo to tell if it was stock removal stainless, or forged, and stock removal Hi-carbon. and O'l Bo was around a lot of years before any one ever heard of the ABS. Mike
not even close. 
With a power hammer or a press, you still have to hold and guide the steel and vary the force of the blow. I think a not-much-better analogy would be that going from a hand hammer and anvil to a power hammer or press is like going from files and sandpaper to a KMG. It sure speeds up the process, but your hands and Mod 1 calibrated eyeballs are still determining whether the knife goes to a customer or to the dump:thumbup:
