Customer Problem... Any Thoughts?

BladeHQ

BladeHQ

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Let me start out by saying that most customers are good, which we are grateful for. These days is seems like there is a larger percentage of "bad" customers though. Chargebacks have become more prevalent, "lost" packages are on the rise and people are sending back clearly used knives demanding refunds.

But now I've got a new situation and I could use some advice:

We recently shipped a $450 Microtech knife to a customer. Shortly thereafter we got an email from him saying that instead of the Microtech he found an Emerson in the Microtech box. He said he had needed the knife by Jan 27th and would have to purchase one locally so he was sending everything back.

We said, "Okay, send it back and we'll have a look." When the knife came back we discovered it was not even an Emerson we stock and it showed clear use. The Emerson knife had been slipped into the plastic sleeve the Microtech comes in. We check every Microtech before it ships and I know we shipped the correct knife- we would have caught the fact that there was an Emerson in a Microtech Box. Looks like a switcheroo to me.

Anyone have any advice or handled anything like this?

-Cam
 
Wow, I have no idea :eek: Sorry for your situation. This sounds like something you would hear about standing in line at the returns at Wally World :grumpy:

I would bring this to his attention (since he knows he did wrong) and not do any form of refunding. Sounds like he wants to have his cake and eat it too.....with a scoop of ice cream on the side.

Let him know that the emerson isn't something that you stock and if he whines about it, you may be forced to eat some negative feedback. That's a big chunk of money to lose just so that he can get his way.

Best of luck and keep us updated, J.
 
If you do not even stock the knife maybe you should refer the customer to the shipper to determine if the "theft" was not at the hands of one of their employees. I cannot believe that someone who works for UPS, FEDEX, or USPS would bother to substitute a user Emerson for the Microtech when they could have simply sent the package on empty or put something in to add weight.
I am not in sales so this is an uneducated opinion, but maybe it's time folks like you stand your ground and refuse to provide any form of refund when it is obvious that the customer is trying to get over on you.
Lets face it; if this guy was a good customer, a long term customer or a potential good customer he would never think of doing something like this.

I say refuse to renumerate the customer who scams so that you will not have to constantly raise prices for us honest folks to cover for thefts like this.
 
It's just such a difficult situation. It's a case of "he said, she said." I'm sure we shipped the right knife. This customer is sure he got the wrong knife. Personally it seems like fraud, but at the same it's not impossible that this customer is just stating the simple facts.

Here's the status thus far: I have explained to him that it looks like fraud and I wasn't sure what to do. He replied with (if this situation is legitimate) justifiable outrage. So far we're at an impasse.

I cannot believe that someone who works for UPS, FEDEX, or USPS would bother to substitute a user Emerson for the Microtech when they could have simply sent the package on empty or put something in to add weight.
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Agreed- this is just too improbable.

Lets face it; if this guy was a good customer, a long term customer or a potential good customer he would never think of doing something like this.
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Right again- this is a first time customer. I wish there some kind of "deadbeat database" to search though.

I have a few more leads to follow-up on. Any other advice is welcome.

-Cam
 
If you buy your MT from a distributor, the switch could have happened there...or...the MT box with the EM in it, could have been returned to the distributor from another dealer. It is not likely the switch happened enroute via common carrier. But....before shipping, you checked the knife inside the box to verify the correct knife was in the box...so liability is not with you and it could not have happened at the distributor level. If you rule out the common carrier switch, you have your answer.
0.02 md
 
Wow, that really is a tough one, vidknight. I've always been very fortunate with my customers (knock on wood;)), but I think I would echo some of what has been said here, and reply that the Emerson in the box isn't even one from your inventory, and refer him to the carrier. That may scare him away, as this seems like a very inexperienced way to scam a retailer.

I could be wrong, but it seems really rinky dink to me. I've had knives returned before, but none have ever showed use or abuse, and my customers usually want to purchase something different from me. Maybe I've been lucky, but this seems pretty outlandish. I wonder if you play hardball with him if he'll ask for his Emerson back:D

Like you, I don't ever ship anything out unless I open the box and make sure it's the EXACT model that was ordered. It's such an easy way to ensure the customer gets what they want, I would be surprised if any online retailer didn't do it. I even have a disclaimer in my website that states "I open every knife before it ships to make sure the one your getting is not only the right model, but functions properly as well." If you don't already, you may want to add something liket that to the site.

Best of luck, and keep us updated on this one.

Jon
 
It’s not unheard of for people to buy an item off eBay and send back their broken item instead. People who deal in vintage audio mark their items internally to catch fraud like this.


“He said he had needed the knife by Jan 27th and would have to purchase one locally so he was sending everything back.”

What’s that have to do with the wrong knife being shipped? For some reason this detail seems out of place or unnecessary.

The package would have just disappeared. If you’re sure you shipped the correct item then I don’t believe the story.


"Like you, I don't ever ship anything out unless I open the box and make sure it's the EXACT model that was ordered. "

I'll go one further- I match the contents to the packing slip then seal the box.


Mitch
 
you guys are great...one time you shipped a microtech 3 pin set instead of the new makora tool...no biggie-but you've NEVER shipped a spyderco in a BENCHMADE box or anything like that-he's a fraud...fedex didn't do anything-he did

tell him about that you don't even stock that same knife and that you take fraud very seriously

hope all is well and thanks to you and everyone else there-you guys rock
 
If you are 100% sure that you shipped the right knife then tell him that and stick by your guns. If you aren't sure, then you are going to have to give him a refund.
 
“He said he had needed the knife by Jan 27th and would have to purchase one locally so he was sending everything back.”

What’s that have to do with the wrong knife being shipped? For some reason this detail seems out of place or unnecessary.
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I was just trying to explain why he would want a refund instead of the correct knife- this portion of his email struck me as suspicious.

I thought I was being clever so I asked him to send me a receipt of the Microtech he bought locally. My logic was that if he really hadn't gotten the knife he would have gone and got one the next day. He emailed me, said he couldn't find the exact knife locally, but that he had gone to a flea market and picked up a similar kind. He included a photo of the "receipt". There's some address info and a phone number so I'll do some follow-up Monday. Yeah... clever.

In a prior email he said, "We do all our business with online retailers and have never had anything like this happen before." Do you guys think it would be out of line for me to ask for some references? If he does all his business online it seems like it would be easy to offer some references up.

If you aren't sure, then you are going to have to give him a refund.
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That's the hard part, Keith. I'm not 100% sure. I'd go 99%. I know we would not have sent an Emerson in a Microtech box. And there's a very real possibility this guy got an Emerson. That's not what my gut says, but that's why I'm looking for ideas.

I appreciate everyone's reply (J's Knives-N-More, wolfmann601, Michael, jonnymac44, braillediver, Haze, nate3993, Keith). I've got some good info to mill over.

-Cam
 
Aloha VidKnight,

CASE CLOSED...period, end of story.

Sorry to butt into this situation of yours, but I had set up an ebay thing for my wife awhile back to get her more involved in the knife scene, and to help the furry strays we have picked up or simply feed.

I checked personally, every single knife that we sent to customers. Something I do even in a trade.

I recently got ripped off by an online "store"...and am still fighting for my refund.

STAND your ground sir. An Emerson you don't even carry got sent back in a Microtech box that you and or crew check to assure sending the right product. You got scammed like I did...

DO NOT REFUND this "person". ONE bad egg, if he starts bashing you will mean nothing against all the good that you have done...

Prayers sent, FWIW...man, now THIS thread is pissing me off...:mad:

God bless!:thumbup:
 
A sales reciept from a flea market?, A brand spanking new $450 Microtech at a Flea Market?, a photo of a bill of sale, if he could take a photo he needed the written original BOS, where is it now?
A photo of a Bill of sale can easily be altered to read whatever one chooses. In all the Flea markets I have gone to a bill of sale would be VERY unusual.
AND to run to a Flea market after recieving a used Emerson instead of the $450 Microtech without calling you on the phone ASAP and demanding a next day replacement is BS at it's best.
Just imagine ordering and paying for a $450 knife and have the box arrive with a beater knife in it's place. Why would you not call the Dealer and demand he do something instead of running to a Flea market, the home of clones and counterfeits and pay another $450? Then, why would you not immediately forward the paper Bill of sale with the seller (or Business) name and all the pertinent data very clear and visible since you know that will be the only way to securing reimbursement without alot of crap.

This has got to be a poorly devised scam or a case for the Ripley's believe it you fool and I have swampland for sale or not TV show!!
 
wolfmann601 said:
A sales reciept from a flea market?, A brand spanking new $450 Microtech at a Flea Market?, a photo of a bill of sale, if he could take a photo he needed the written original BOS, where is it now?
A photo of a Bill of sale can easily be altered to read whatever one chooses. In all the Flea markets I have gone to a bill of sale would be VERY unusual.
AND to run to a Flea market after recieving a used Emerson instead of the $450 Microtech without calling you on the phone ASAP and demanding a next day replacement is BS at it's best.
Just imagine ordering and paying for a $450 knife and have the box arrive with a beater knife in it's place. Why would you not call the Dealer and demand he do something instead of running to a Flea market, the home of clones and counterfeits and pay another $450? Then, why would you not immediately forward the paper Bill of sale with the seller (or Business) name and all the pertinent data very clear and visible since you know that will be the only way to securing reimbursement without alot of crap.

This has got to be a poorly devised scam or a case for the Ripley's believe it you fool and I have swampland for sale or not TV show!!
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I totally agree with wolfmann601,

VidKnight, you KNOW you did right, yet allowing yourself to think in that 1% chance that "he could've received a USED Emerson that you DON'T stock", really, and I mean, REALLY shows just how kind hearted and fair you really are.:thumbup:

Again I say, stand your ground!!!

On a lighter note, you can send that used Emerson my way when all the dust settles...I never could afford one of those.:p Kidding, sort of. At least regarding the affording part.:o

Again, God bless sir and sorry you too are a victim of SCAM!!!
 
Daywalker said:
I totally agree with wolfmann601,

VidKnight, you KNOW you did right, yet allowing yourself to think in that 1% chance that "he could've received a USED Emerson that you DON'T stock", really, and I mean, REALLY shows just how kind hearted and fair you really are.:thumbup:

Again I say, stand your ground!!!

On a lighter note, you can send that used Emerson my way when all the dust settles...I never could afford one of those.:p Kidding, sort of. At least regarding the affording part.:o

Again, God bless sir and sorry you too are a victim of SCAM!!!
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+1 to stand your ground-your good people-don't let someone take advantage of your kindness-you KNOW in your gut this didn't happen
 
if it was me, lifes too short, send the guy his refund, write off the knife on your income tax or write it off as a cost of doing biz, , and never deal with the individual again, & check out going stuff closely to where in the future ya would KNOW what went out vs THINK ya know what went out.

from what i understand charge backs almost always go in the consumers favor anyway.

does suck though, hope it all works out.
 
I guess I'd refuse the refund and let him proceed from there. If he's a scammer he'll probably go away.

What he does next might establish his true intentions.

"Why would you not call the Dealer and demand he do something instead of running to a Flea market, "

I wouldn't be sending emails- I'd be on the phone immediately.


Good Luck Mitch
 
VidKnight said:
We check every Microtech before it ships and I know we shipped the correct knife- we would have caught the fact that there was an Emerson in a Microtech Box. Looks like a switcheroo to me.
-Cam
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It sounds like you have answered your own question....

No telephone communication, dodgey "flea market" receips, a used Emerson model you don't carry, no references, and you checked the box.....sorry no way......
The whole thing stinks to high heaven......

You are obviously someone for whom business integrity and reputation are all important. It is a sad fact that unscrupulous people will prey on that and then threaten to expose your "bad business practice" on the net.

I say stand your ground and let him proceed against you....My guess is that he will disappear.
But if he makes an appearance here on BF trying to bad mouth you he will find a most interesting reception;)

Best of luck with it
 
It really does look like this guy is trying to put one over on you. Tell him your not giving him a refund because you are 100% sure you sent the right knife. Did he pay by credit card? Just wondering, because if he did, he could apply for a chargeback.
 
+1 on standing your ground.

- Make sure he knows that you do not carry the knife he claims to have received.
- Make sure he knows that you check each knife you ship.

Case closed.
 
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