Dagger Progression

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I tried to suggest a format for operating here because, reading some of your prior posts, I see you've already been admonished by the moderators a couple times for failing to understand the "netiquette" around here. Once was for committing the faux pas of suggesting someone's price was too high in a for sale forum. You have to understand that would suggest at least a possibility for expecting too much for too little. Thus, I asked you to name a minimum you expected to pay, to see if you have much of an idea of what you're expecting.

It is certainly your business to conduct how you want. My concerns are more to guide younger makers on how to approach taking an order. Enthusiasm to sell can sometimes supercede good sense.

BTW, there is an old saying, "Always be polite to strangers." It seems to work as well here as everywhere, online or not.

Good luck with your project. :)
 
thanks fitzos Min maybe $$100?

I just expect good lines on it nice and symmetrical. Finish is another matter ...
also I wanted a slight convex.
 
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YW, petah. I think $100 is a good starting point for a well made blade, pending final details. I think you are now in a position to have some interested takers.

I wish you well with your project, and hope you can come back and share the finished project with us eventually.
 
I consider 100 to low for a 3v blade as the heat treating is a bear in its self. not to mention the cost of steel and working it. but 100 is not bad for say a 5160 of 1095 blade.
 
petah said:
....Away from the lab for a few days so..
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I noticed your profile said "student". Does that mean "graduate student" type lab, if you don't mind my asking, petah? Which field? Thanks.
 
JTknives said:
I consider 100 to low for a 3v blade as the heat treating is a bear in its self. not to mention the cost of steel and working it. but 100 is not bad for say a 5160 of 1095 blade.
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Preheat to 1550F and equalize.
Austenitize @ 1950F, soaked for 30-45 min
Plate quench
Temper three times @ 1000F

This really isn't any different than other air hardening steels like S30V, BG42, etc so I can't see charging more for the heat treating. If it's really that tough it can be sent out for not much money.

If all he's talking about is heat treating and grinding a blank, $100 sounds fair for just about any steel.
 
I'm an undergrad but I do a lot of "special work"
It's not too glamorous nothing scientific. I'm an Economic/Actuarial student.
I run regressions, produce/analyze economic models... But I need a powerful computer and TON of data hence the lab.

Something you may find amusing. one of my professors produced a model years ago on the end of capitalism. which mirrors EXACTLY whats happening to the US. There is speculation on the fact that the aid package will work... but it's just speculation and may not ease investor confidence blah blah blah... Short story is it may be a waste and push your balance of payments even further out and make you currency tank well below the yen etc.

how does it happen?

your GNI(gross national income) is foreign funded IE: your GDP(gross domestic product) is produced with other country's borrowed money(china/japan/Britain etc...) So you guys borrow money to buy machines to produce goods/services. Currency value is based on many things PPP(Purchasing power parity), CIP (covered interest parity) and Balance of payments (world bank)... You Borrowed /speculated like in the great depression however this time not with "banks" as in the 1920's but with other financial interments and with the worlds money not just America's.

now Your currency has no backing because it's value is based on borrowed money This aid package is based on borrowed money as well. So... The USA is borrowing money to fix a borrowed money problem. Think of it like using a credit card to pay off another credit card. But with other consequences... people can see that the money has no backing (would a bank give you a loan if it new u were paying off your debit with debit? ) and it just destroys your currency ... too many models and ideas to mention....
 
You are studying what has to be a fascinating field at this moment. Not only the subject matter but the statistical modeling math has to be quite interesting. It is a scary time for most of the world right now.
Thank you for the explanation, petah.
 
AcridSaint said:
Preheat to 1550F and equalize.
Austenitize @ 1950F, soaked for 30-45 min
Plate quench
Temper three times @ 1000F

This really isn't any different than other air hardening steels like S30V, BG42, etc so I can't see charging more for the heat treating. If it's really that tough it can be sent out for not much money.

If all he's talking about is heat treating and grinding a blank, $100 sounds fair for just about any steel.
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3v is also at least 15$ a pound compared to 1095 thats closer to $3.50
also you end up using more belts grinding 3v
do you cryo your 1095 thats an extra cost that i would say 3v needs. i dont foil wrap 1095 ether

its little things but alot of little stuff adds up

i cant see making a double edge dagger 6" blade (full tang) for less then $250 and hidden tang would for me go way up cause of extra work on guard and butcaps
 
Yeah np. If you ever have any questions pop me a message And I'll do my best to explain. The economy is SO complicated and there is never a finite answer to anything, It's just a bunch of theories people make and we see which ones kinda hold (Never has a theory fully held) then with these half-assed ideas on how the economy works we base other theories and make decisions... It's like driving a car that has really bad brakes and the accelerator is sticky/doesn't work while only looking in your rear view mirror. You can see what has happened and you can see in your peripheral vision what is coming up but you can't really do much. other than make the best decision you can at the time...
 
butcher_block said:
i cant see making a double edge dagger 6" blade (full tang) for less then $250 and hidden tang would for me go way up cause of extra work on guard and butcaps
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I just wanted a rough blank done (cut, ground, HT, rough sanded, sharpened).

If that constitutes $250 I should just go buy a finished knife from one of the more mainstream makers who works in 3v for the same price.
 
butcher_block said:
3v is also at least 15$ a pound compared to 1095 thats closer to $3.50
also you end up using more belts grinding 3v
do you cryo your 1095 thats an extra cost that i would say 3v needs. i dont foil wrap 1095 ether

its little things but alot of little stuff adds up

i cant see making a double edge dagger 6" blade (full tang) for less then $250 and hidden tang would for me go way up cause of extra work on guard and butcaps
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He just wants the blade, Butch, that he'll finish by blasting. No hardware or handle material.

I calculated about $23-25US for the steel looking at AKS prices no S/H included. It is definitely one of the spendy steels.

I haven't decided whether I'd cryo a pigsticker, perhaps opting for the toughness over edge holding. Especially with petah's desire for being able to hammer it into a tree. :)

I was the one who asked petah to name a minimum price he considered a blade like this would be worth, in order to promote discussion and help him understand the costs involved. I'm glad to see it is working.
 
well if its just a blade then that would be different
i just don't have any 3v in stock right now

oo i think i would still cryo but then temper at like 1025f
 
fitzo you smart man! if this were a more to the point less chatty thread I'd say make it a sticky! The whole process of commissioning a knife is being documented.

I was under the impression that cryoing makes the edge holding a tad better as it releases stresses in the manufacturing. If it makes edge holding suffer I'd gladly opt out of it. I'm sure the properties of the steel can make up for that.
 
The one thing that cryo has been proven to accomplish is convert retained austenite (RA) to martensite. While this should increase wear resistance (and edge holding), it will probably come with a concurrent loss of toughness. On the other hand, inadequate toughness in a steel with high carbide volumes can also result in easy edge chipping. Steels like D2 are formulated to produce a certain amount of RA so that industry can take advantage of it to increase the ability of forming dies to resist chipping.
That said, CPM3V has a REALLY significant increase in toughness over D2. So, one may be willing to go ahead and cryo to achieve an increase in edge holding and still have adequate toughness to achieve design objectives.
I don't know, and remain undecided for sheer lack of referents and/or data. There was an excellent paper I could email you regarding the loss of toughness in A2 with cryo, and that remains in the back of my mind.
What concerns me is your desire to have a knife that will take the type of (ab)use that will allow it to be pounded into a tree. I am assuming you would want to withdraw it with tip intact. :) Definitely a "toughness task". Some of that can be accomplished with geometry, but to me it is a daunting requirement and creates concerns.
Given that a dagger is by definition a stabbing device and edge holding a secondary consideration, I would personally opt for the toughness over edge holding concerns. But, that's just me, and this is all about preferences, isn't it? And, since you're the one spending money, the choice will be up to you.
 
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