Damascarbotanium-----Chris Moss WiP

[Lorien]

Hello forumites!

We have for you what promises to be a great WiP! Some time ago, Chris Moss started a thread here http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/888605-My-first-take-down-Bolo-fighter-WIP, so that's where we're coming from.

I was pretty excited by what I saw in that thread. I currently own a Moss knife which I use regularly and have come to value for its utility, comfort and beauty, so I dropped Chris a line and let him know that I was interested. I had one request though, and that was to help steer the project. He had in mind certain materials and shapes, which I asked him to change. Obviously he took on the challenge, or I wouldn't be here to put this thread together right now:thumbup:.

Wherever possible, I'll quote Chris' words in describing the process behind the build. There are some very interesting techniques going on in this thread, and we both hope that someone, somewhere out there learns a thing or two from Chris. I wanted to make sure in this thread that updates are added regularly and that the thread doesn't drag on forever. Maintaining your interest is my number one priority! We can call this a WiP thread because the knife at this time is not yet done. Soon, though, very soon...

Here's where it all started;

******************


I have been wanting to try a take down, and I love this style blade. I dont have any forging pictures as I made this billet up at the Fire and brimstone hammer-in in 2010. It is W2-15n20-1084 at about 100 layers, (or thereabouts) and the forging was done when I left my camera at work.

The blade has been forged, rough ground, heat treated then final ground, ready for hand finishing. It is about 3/16 thick at the widest, with a modest distal taper. It got a slight warp in the tip during the heat treat and I had to bend the blade almost 45 degrees before it would alter the curve in any way. It is a light flexible blade, which is a nice change from the heavy, stiff tool steel blades I normally make. It will handle more like a fighter than a chopper.

****************



At this point, I stepped in and adopted Chris' knife. Stay tuned...

 

[Boggs]

Lorien....


I've always liked the work Chris does when shown here or other places..and this proves to be no different...can't wait to see the progress

 

[Will York]

Starting with a beautiful, functional and obviously durable blade--really like that damascus pattern. :thumbup:

Sounds like an interesting thread--thanks, Lorien.

 

[ScottRoush]

Looking forward to this.... Moss, whether he knows it or not.. is the one that sent me down the path of laminated steel....

 

[cbr900son]

Love his work!

 

[Lorien]

now, don't get me wrong- Chris' original design was pretty hot. Woulda sold in a heartbeat. Was something in demand.

But, truth be told, my honest and first reaction to it was, 'aw, crap'. To me, it looked like Chris was giving in to conformity, and it made me a little sad because he's got a uniqueness about him which I think a lot of you knife making folk admire him for, and something I certainly admire as well. In fact, there isn't a single knife he's posted since he started posting knives for sale that I haven't considered buying. Anyway, I haven't said it quite so bluntly up til this point, but now that we're moving this project forward, my hope is that this particular knife can become something of a touchstone for Mr. Moss.

So, at that point where I saw the drawing I interjected myself. I felt Chris out for his flexibility in his approach to the knife he'd create from the blade he'd made, and he figured out a very reasonable price that I figured I couldn't pass up. The stars aligned and although I had not anticipated the expense of yet another knife, the project was just too good to pass up. Besides, I made a little unanticipated money with a knife related design project I'm working on which I feel somewhat obliged to reinvest back into the custom knife community, and this seemed like a great way to do that.

Now because I was a bit of an interloper in the process, I tried to be a little extra vague in what I wanted this knife to be. For instance, I told Chris that I'd like to see something along the lines of a 'Bitchin' Camaro S-guard'. Chris is a young fellow so maybe The Dead Milkmen hasn't reached him yet, ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v3CzvQ9e_w ) although the Milkmen aren't for everyone, amazingly...
At any rate, he figured it out. And then some.

Firebird;

Bitchin Camaro;

 

[Knifemaker87]

Lorien et all,
I appreciate your kind words, and am extremely excited about this project. It is by the most complicated american knife i have ever made, and one of the best IMHO . I am really hoping to nail the fit and finish on this piece, and have been putting in the time it takes to get it just right. honestly, if it wasnt for your input it would be another nice but boring knife. You helped "spice it up"
thanks!
~Chris

 

[Lorien]

With some reluctance, I accepted that Chris wanted to build his first 'take down' knife using this blade.
It has since been proven that any of my concerns regarding longevity and dependability could be laid to rest.
Check out the precision exhibited here;

The finial nut would prove to be a PITA. This is the first iteration;

From this point on, there will be more explanations as to what is going on from Chris himself, and less cheezy commentary from yours truly. Stay tuned later in the day for more updates...

 

[RogerP]

I liked this blade a bunch when Chris first posted it. Looking forward to seeing the rest unfold.

Roger

 

[Lorien]

I got the guard design hammered out I think. I am going for a light, fluid look. Ti is strong enough to deflect pretty much anything even at that thickness.
Then I milled the slot with an 1/8th inch endmill on a manual Bridgeport mill, leaving about 0.005 on the side so I could file it in, and then rough profiled the guard.
With the slot milled I still had to fit the guard to the handle, so out came the files, and I snuck up on it

***********

yes, he did say 'titanium'.


ps. A special note to would-be titanium grinding knife makers; them sparks are HOT! I once saw a picture of Michael Walker grinding away at something, and he had a towel hanging over his belt. I always thought that was weird. But after hearing from Chris how he almost set himself on fire grinding away at titanium, it all makes sense to me now. I'll bet the towel was damp even. I mean, what rationale person would willingly expose their crotch to red hot titanium shards travelling at great speed directly at it?

 

[Lorien]

With the guard rough fit, it is time to make the handle. This will be a "dry run", in that I am going to test the procedure out with low quality resin as a proof of concept, so I can tweak my process before I make the final handle.

With composites, the name of the game is "preparation"- you have to have everything ready before you mix the first batch of resin.
First, since this will be a unidirectional handle I have to get a bunch of fiber ready. I just used a bunch of scrap material I saved and pulled it apart to get the fibers all in one direction.

As I pulled the fiber apart, I sorted it acording to length until I had more than I would need. Again, better to have more than you need than run out of fiber while you are all sticky and your resin clock is ticking.

 

[Lorien]

Hey Chris, you mind posting some photos of those motorcycles you put together from cf?

 

[Knifemaker87]

one note... when i was milling the slot, I said manual lathe... I have lathe on the brain as that is what I normally run, however, what I was using in the picture was a manual Bridgeport mill. Just trying to avoid confusion.

Hey Chris, you mind posting some photos of those motorcycles you put together from cf?

it would be my pleasure!



here is some motorcycle stuff:
seat fairings:

one piece tail unit:

Covered my tank and couple friend's tanks:

here is what the bike looked like brand new:

what it looked like when i bought it:

here is the bike when i finished it:
all the fabrication, machining, mechanical, welding, and paint work i did myself.

 

[Dawkind]

Great job on the knife but that bike looks to scalding fast....nice work.

 

[Kohai999]

Nice bike, Chris, although I profess to preferring the full fairing on CB's.

Lorien, this is hard(really) but the knife looked much better with Chris' original drawing, and he should have stuck to it. I truly FEAR what the final knife is going to look like. You need to spend more time studying and less time thinking that preferences will match suitably to aesthetics or even performance.

Case in point....the design you had Nick Wheeler do....it was almost attractive because Nick got to work some mojo into it....left to itself, the design was ass ugly.....and the knives designed by Joe Paranee for Jason Knight and Nick Wheeler were designed for performance first, and proved that no aesthetic sacrifices needed to be made.

Reign yourself in....take some time....study, study, study....revisit.

Last I am going to say on the subject, other than the blade and the handle are mismatched in style and function.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Jon Brand]

I like the blade and handle design. But I agree that the original guard design suits it much better.

 

[David Wesner]

Subscribed :thumbup:

I've always liked Chris' work and was really happy to see him come back from his short hiatus. IMHO, this in one guy who's back doing exactly what he was meant to, making knives :thumbup:

And the thread title, Damascarbotanium, I just had to click on that one if for nothing else, to see what the heck I was missing

Chris and Lorien, Thanks for sharing this WIP with us

Anxiously awaiting to see the end result and everything that happens in between :thumbup: :thumbup:

 

[Lorien]

Lorien, this is hard(really) but the knife looked much better with Chris' original drawing, and he should have stuck to it. I truly FEAR what the final knife is going to look like. You need to spend more time studying and less time thinking that preferences will match suitably to aesthetics or even performance.

only a couple of things I can say to this;

- it's too late, (other than the fact that this is a take down and Chris could make another guard if he was so inclined). There's no 'coulda, woulda, shoulda', there is only 'is'.

- everyone is entitled to his opinion, and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Your aesthetic is not the same as mine.

- you are comparing two drawings to one another, not two knives

- as for Nick's knife, the original template was designed almost 6 years ago, since then I've learned a great deal. I still like the looks of that original template, and your thinking its ugly won't change that

To David- thank you! The name for this thread is kind of wacky just like me

let's see what happens next, shall we?

 

[Lorien]

ps. Steven, I'm not offended at all by your post. Just wanted to make that clear.

 

[peterinct]

As an AVID motorcyclist...GREAT work on the bike Chris. It should be interesting to see how yours and Lorien's collaboration comes out.

Here is my big brother to your CBR in stock trim:

Regards,
Peter